Before you yell "All together, lets go"...

[Roland]

...please look back and make sure we are all together. It's happened twice this week, once after the sprint on Tuesday and today a group of 7 or so got left behind after the turn onto Feltham.

Also, what was the deal this morning... that wasn't really a 'group' ride. Maybe we need to add a hammerhead ride to Thursday morning.

[AlW]

<rant>

Unfortunately, this is becoming a regular occurrence.

This morning, Peter asked if there were any takers for the "everyone for themselves" group. I think there were 3 or 4 volunteers. The idea seemed to be abandoned, until...

As normally happens, the group strung out on Ash road. A fast group formed, a second group stayed on the gas to catch the fast group and the rest were left to fend for themselves. I think most got back on, but a couple clearly weren't going to make it. I sat up with the intention of helping pull them back to the group, but by the time we got organized the group was gone.

Don't get me wrong. Helping pull guys back to the group isn't really a big deal and in our failed attempt to get back on, we got a great workout. What bugs me is that we continue to espouse the "no one left behind" ideology in theory, yet abandon it in practice. The unfortunate result is a slow degradation into the "Burnside" type group that we all seem to agree we want to avoid.

</rant>

[shawnc]

I'm a bit confused... I thought Peter made it pretty clear that the first group out was the A "shell your friends" ride. I saw a few hands go up and I left with the understanding that I was riding in the cutthroat group. I assumed there was another A "no drop" ride a few minutes behind us and then the B ride.

If a few riders got dropped off the cutthroat ride, wasn't the second A group coming along to scoop them up?

[Plawless]

I think this is one of those thigns that we need to continue to talk about and work on. It was my intention t try to have 2 different A groups go out but everyone went out together. This was clearly not sustainable for some folks (I note here that my average from Ash to the Sprint was a shade OVER 40 km/h!). Respectfully, I think the best area for change lies with the folks at the "back" of the A ride. Instead of being individuals slaughtering yourself trying to bridge to guys liek Josh & Bob C (which is a really tall order!) sit up and collect as a group - then once the group forms do a rolling paceline.

Alternatively lets try actually rolling 2 different A rides out. the first is the slit your throat ride and the second is the I wanna go fast but dont want to vomit ride. In my view its up to the guys that cant hold the 40km/h to recognize that fact and assemble a gang to share the load.

Once again thoguh havig said that I really hate the Burnside attitude and dont want it creeping into our group. The challenge for all of us is to recognize that there are varying abilities and objectives in the group. I have to confess that I had one of the most fun rides of the year this morning and it was precisely because we were busting our asses the whole time from Ash.

Frankly I dont know how we make sure that everyone gets what they want but I suggest we try the following next week:

Tuesday - (if there are over 20 A's) - I will arbitrarily break the A group into 2 random groups to go do the box. Regular B ride

Wed - its hills - who cares!!!!

Friday - lets roll a group of 10-12 hammerheads out and have them paceline all day baby! 30 seconds later let the regular A ride go (just DONT mix the groups at a traffic light etc). Also a regular B ride

SO the challenges are:

allowing me to blow my brains out at 40 while getting Geoff to meet his goal of hanging with the A's while not being like Burnside and keeping it open for New B's and allowing B's to progress to A. - Easy Peasy!

I think we need to:

1. KEEP COMMUNICATING - as long as we talk about this stuff its cool.

2. Hammerheads - You (we) MUST take turns NOT being hammerheads and evey once in a while go for a ride with the A's or the B's to help develop skills in that group - plus wouldnt it be good to knwo your fellow TS rider a little better?

Just my thoughts. All opinions encouraged here!

[AlW]

I think a dedicated hammerhead group is definitely needed to keep that fast guys challenged but it has to roll out separately so all involved are clear on what group they are in and what the expectations are.

One additional challenge that has been mentioned in the past is attempting to have everyone arrive at coffee at about the same time to maintain the group feel. If this is still a priority, the hammerhead group should incorporate a detour to account for the speed difference. Maybe an extra lap of KGT (via foul bay and fairfield?) That would add 3-5 minutes and increase the suffering that much more (if you're going to do it, may as well do it right).

[Roland]

Maybe the hammerheads should add in a loop at 10 mile point, then try and catch back on.

[dreeves]

The beauty of the TS ethos is that we DO talk about issues and have, in my opinion, created a club that does try to cater to all skill levels, albeit, it is at times a work in progress.

This morning blew my mind! Every ride we seem to get more and more riders joining us and that is fantastic. We HAD to split into groups as a 40 + pelotón of varying abilities is simply unsafe, especially if we have new people who don't know the route/customs of our rides.

Peter was VERY clear this morning that there were going to be 3 distinct groups. Way more than 4 hands went up for the Hammerhead ride (12-15?) and I assumed, that this was a go as we rolled out of the doc's office. I was surprised to look back and see 30 riders behind me, and no second 'A' group.

Today for me was also one of my favourite rides of the year. I missed the break and worked hard with the second group bridge up by the Uplands gates. Once on, we rode at a speed that I had wanted to be riding, for months now, with good organization and team work.

On any other morning I may not feel like riding so hard and I will fall in with a group that also feels the same. I will help that group organize and to find a comfortable pace that will take us to coffee. I would in no way shape or form want to tell the guys who are wanting to go at speed, after it had been decided beforehand, to slow it down simply because we are on a TS ride and it is against our philosophy. Our philosophy is dynamic. One aspect, however, is solid. We encourage all levels of riders and help each develop bike handling skills and fitness. Actually two aspects are solid....coffee is king!

And on that note, for all newcomers, the tradition is that we take turns buying coffee for the entire group. If you partake in the nectar of the gods, then please be prepared to take a turn at the till. With larger rides like today, the bill can be split in two. Mocha House sponsors us with a 25% discount so the bite doesn't hurt that much when your turn comes up once a month.

Hope to see a number of you for take off tomorrow at 6:00, Cook Street Starf%$*s.

d

[Barry McKee]

As one of the new guys, this being only my second week with TSC, I can say that I am enjoying the rides, well maybe not he hills on Wednesday, and I think everything will eventually get sorted out with more discussion. It may also take a bit of a direct approach. I say this as not all of us are aware of the talent in the group. Clearly there is a group that is Cat 3 or better, then there are those below. It is not fair to the better riders, nor is it fair to the others, to mix the group for a hard all out ride, one that falls apart leaving carnage in it's wake. It would be different if the ride was just a "ride". Clearly this is not the case. And that is fine. Everyone has different goals and expectations from the effort they are putting in. Hard to have a one size fits all activity. After today's "ride" I would be pleased to go out in a group without the hammerheads but still on the same route. I need to be pushed and I need to pull too. I was in the group that caught the front pack at the village but I got dropped on the hill and went solo until Willow's Beach where I was gathered in by a chase group. That's a long time to go solo in a group ride. I would have sat up but had no way of know what was behind me. Very much enjoyed it the rest of the way. Some of you know the top 10 to 15 riders. I have no problem with you naming them and putting them out together. Not sure how else we will resolve the issue. I can say that this is really a good problem to have. It show that the club is strong. Ride safe ~ Barry.

[Josh.E]

I think rolling the two groups out separately from the start would go a long way towards resolving a bunch of these issues (and I also thought the idea was made very clear by Peter this morning). Once we're rolling, it's a tall order to ask people to sit up and watch a group attack off the front without trying to stay on; it's in all our natures to try not to get dropped. It also creates a very grey area as to where the line is between the "drop" and "no-drop" group once you find yourself in no mans land.

As long as there is a large enough core group that WANTS to do the no-drop till king george "A" ride from the start and not worry about chasing the hammerhead "race" group then all is great. People who find they've bitten off more than they can chew with the hammerhead group can either solo TT in or sit up and wait for the A ride they know is not far behind.

Although the arriving for coffee at the same time idea is great, one of the benefits of the 3 groups is smaller,safer sprints. If we try to re-adjust the rides by adding distance so everyone arrives at exactly the same time, and end up with 3 different speed groups arriving at the finish line at the same time, the sprint could end up a lot more dangerous.

All that being said, as much as I enjoy the high pace of the rides off the front lately, I would happily go back to a no drop until king george format if it means keeping the inclusive group feel of tripleshot alive. All it really means is everyone is fresher at king george, and the pace for the last 7km gets that much faster. I think the same fastest guys would still ride away by the finish.

There are VCL races every week, plus the saturday morning ride to get my hammering in. Not every ride needs to be a race.