Sorry, A2, but that was as un-Tripleshot as it gets

[Lund]

No matter what group you’re with, taking dangerous turns across oncoming traffic and then leaving the last four riders behind at a red light is utterly classless.It’s probably no coincidence that a good number of the riders in A2 today aren’t Tripleshot members.

If you’re thinking “You’re one to talk, Lund”, think about the fact that even this accomplished expert in riding like a dickhead sees leaving people behind at a red light as a complete disregard of riding etiquette and basic respect.

Not cool at all.

[John D]

Not cool at all.

Nor was the fact that the group contained 24 people when it passed our C-group, after being specifically told not to form groups larger than about 12.

[Greg F]

Normally I like to add frivolity to the forum with gif's and such, but the behaviour and attitude of the A2 group as a whole got under my skin today - we can all do better.

I totally get that the A2 ride is meant to be challenging - heck, I've been dropped on EVERY one I've ridden this year, so if someone didn't want to be in a second-group because they felt I or others were not as fast as the folks in the front, worry not - I'll stick with the group until I can't then you'll get the benefit of a HARDER workout as the group shrinks. Voila -> #Gains!

A few of us called out to split the group, repeatedly, and it was ignored (I'm not THAT quiet). We did attempt to split the group on Shelb, then one after another person bridged up. Personally, I was OK with sticking with the larger group by then (I certainly could have slid back to the next group but figured a small group of us would gather soon after Ash to work together for a really nice workout) until we got to Feltham and about half the group went thru a red light, then no one waited for the 4-5 of us who did stop.

Some folks stated we should let the group shrink 'naturally'. Yes, this will likely occur on fast rides as we go over hills, or people could REALLY accelerate on Blenkinsop. All fair play, in my opinion. But it still ignores the two big points:
1. The club (the club president, in fact) specifically said to limit group sizes to 12; and
2. The group didn't wait for the folks who were caught at traffic (with a large # of people crossing the red light; from memory, if the light hadn't turned red, they would have been crossing in front of an oncoming car).

We all have to remember the most important person on a ride is EVERYONE else. Dashing across in front of an oncoming car, going thru a red-light, leaving the rest of the group behind (because they followed traffic laws, not because of fitness) - this is NOT looking after everyone else. Like I said, we can do better. Its not JUST up to the strongest riders, the riders in front, riders in the middle, or riders in the back - its up to EVERYONE to look around and call out and EVEYRONE ELSE relay that info and respect what's being said. One shouldn't have to be of a certain speed, strength, Cat #, bike $$ value, whatever, to be heard and respected.

[Rolf]

Sounds cheesy, Steve. Sounds also like the problem was less about red-light etiquette, and more about initial group size management. Let's all just imagine that Fozzy the Bobby still stands at the OBH parking lot exit, counting off riders, and imposing order. (I loved when he used to do that!)

Semi-related historical musings include:

• 2010 – Josh's points of etiquette (see number 8 in particular);
• 2011 – Peter's venting (plus Sylvan's characteristic self-immolation);
• 2013 – Mike D.'s apropos comments on the seasonality of A-ride expectation polémiques;
• 2016 – Ritchie's relevant rhetorical question;
• 2016 – Andrew's retrospective on group sizes; and
• 2016 – Claire's "clear divisions" and "tickly urges".

There are probably several more threads somewhat on point, but my lunch break's over.

p.s. over our nearly 30K cross ride this morning we encountered one (1) traffic light: at Lansdowne and Richmond. Fortunately, it was red when we arrived, allowing us to re-group—and Johnny Tyre didn't get left behind.

[Rob Berry]

Seems to me that the group should have been split in the parking lot. Two A2's, maybe call one A3?

[mfarnham]

I think some people wonder why we call for groups of no more than 12 out of the parking lot and no more than 16 on the road (which allows for a few pickups along the way). This is not an arbitrary rule by one person, but one arrived at collectively after years of discussions at coffee, on the road, and in Exec meetings. Years of experience and many past crash reports informed the decision to limit group size to these numbers.

There are multiple obvious reasons--to do with safety and community relations--to limit group size. This morning's ride seems to have illustrated Reason Number 1: Big groups do dumb things.

I read a recent Facebook post by someone riding with a reputable Lower Mainland bike club. They said they were essentially stalked by the police in West Van for most of a recent ride and pulled over when one person in their *single file line* moved out of line with the rest of the group to give wide berth to some parked cars. The police clearly had it in for group rides. One reason we have good relations with the police in greater Victoria is that we repeatedly demonstrate that we're a concerned, careful, and well-disciplined group of riders. That doesn't happen by itself. It takes input from every member. If people are careless, we could quickly lose the privilege of those good relations. We only need to look as far as the cycling ban at the Observatory to see that a few people can quickly ruin things for everyone else. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8593

It's easy to have an A3 group out of the parking lot. It's equally easy for A2 to create an A3 group by splitting itself at any point in the ride. It's everyone's responsibility to make sure that happens when needed and to support the efforts of others in the group trying to make that happen. Please act *and* speak up to make sure our rides stay safe and respectful.

Martin

[Paul Chris]

"A good number of the A2 riders were not Tripleshot members"

According to my information you are allowed 2 guest rides (please clarify if this is wrong)
If it is 2 ...Should riders on their third ride be asked to leave??

[JTyre]

Good post, Steve.

From the perspective of an A2-wannabe, the episode you describe makes one wanna stay in the warm friendly confines of the B's forever. (And yes I agree with you that you're an "accomplished dickhead" -- just kidding, of course .)

Even in the B's, I think there are some issues with stop signs and red lights. It seems to me that if everyone cannot safely get through a stop sign or red light, then no one in the group should pass through. This is especially true when the numbers are too big (as in your case) and the presumption at the back is that you're safe to get through the intersection because others have. Jill's fall on Wednesday's Farm ride is a case in point. Of course, it's not always possible to get these things just right, but we could aspire.

p.s. I take exception to Rolf's insinuation (above) that I'm as chubby and slow as he is. I'm not chubby.