Ultergra vs DuraAce vs Scram Red

[jeremy]

I'm looking outfit my bike with all new shiny toys for the spring, what do you guys think is best.
(note - Lister is not allowed to participate, seeing as he'll try to sell me on the advantages of downtube shifters from the early 80's)

[Lister Farrar]

I'm looking outfit my bike with all new shiny toys for the spring, what do you guys think is best.
(note - Lister is not allowed to participate, seeing as he'll try to sell me on the advantages of downtube shifters from the early 80's)

Not fair! There's not one downtube shifting bike left in my house.

What's best is ....more miles! (Note, that wasn't in km. Kms are too short. And too new. )

[Roland]

Save your money. Rumor is Ultegra Di2 is coming for 2012 with a similar price to the mechanical Dura Ace.

Until then, buy a cross bike or mountain bike. Remember, with bikes quantity is more important than quality.

[jeremy]

Until then, buy a cross bike or mountain bike. Remember, with bikes quantity is more important than quality.

Well Roland my plan was to get new components for my Devinci frame, then buy a nice cross frame and put my old components on it, that way I've got a cross/winter bike for next year, and a summer bike that I'd really look forward to putting some miles on. Which also brings me to, if anyone knows of a decent cross frame 54-56cm for sale, please let me know.

[wonger]

Consider Sram Force rather than Red as I'm not convinced there is a measurable gain for the money you shell out for Red. I've got Force on my bike and I love it - very positive, does exactly what I want it to when I want it to. Has been pretty much maintenance free thus far.

[EricS]

Ummm... none of the above.

Campy. Always.

Actually, I loved my 9Sp DuraAce. Works as you would expect: perfectly. Shimano is also nice and quiet when coasting. If you like to scare people as you approach from behind, the roar of a campy freehub is awesome. Seriously though, the second tier groupos are such great value, Force, Ultegra and Chorus all work very well for a lot less money. The Chorus 10sp on my summer bike has never been adjusted, not even a barrel adjuster tweak on the rear derailleur cable, in 8 years. Second chain, original cables and housing. Nothing. 8 years.

ES

[Josh.E]

If you're going new, I'd say go ultegra or 105. For all practical purposes, anything higher you are paying purely for the marketing and the bling factor. Unless paying more money motivates you to ride your bike more......

I would say 105 or rival is more than good enough for the needs of anyone in this club. The differences are very small from there up. If you can find a good deal on some lightly used 7800 dura ace, or something like that, that might be worth it to pick it up.

[4827north]

Best value: quality/weight as the two prime factors: SRAM Force. Hands down. I was a die hard Shimano fan, until I tried SRAM Red. I love the way the shifter mechanism works, how much simpler the mechanics of it are, and the weight savings.

Anyone that spends money on DI2 is nuts. Who the heck wants to put their bike "on the grid" with nightly charging. That's nuts.

If you get a chance, take a Sram Force or Red bike for a spin, see if you like. I've even heard that Rival is pretty darn good, but the weight starts to creep up.

I have Sram Red on both my bikes so 'm a big fan

My second choice would be DA-7900. Ultegra is pretty nice too, but I think SRAM Force at similar pricing is better value.

There was a time, back in the 1990s when I was riding ridiculously expensive Campy Record. It was heavy, but had comfy hoods. It was heavy and expensive. Did I say that, already? Every part was built to last 100 years, or more; especially the hubs. Beautiful, but heavy. And what's worse, anyone riding Cramp-n-go-slow was the odd duck with Campy in a Shimano-dominated peloton. That meant neutral wheels were 80-95% Shimano. I flatted a rear wheel during a road race in Fort Langley, took a neutral wheel, and suffered with mis-shifts the rest of the race, trying to mate someone's Shimano wheel with my Campy shifters. After that I sold my expensive Campy and went to Shimano. Unless your bike reeks of Italian sausage, I'd stick with either SRAM or Shimano. My recent bias is SRAM Red or Force.

[4827north]

Save your money. Rumor is Ultegra Di2 is coming for 2012 with a similar price to the mechanical Dura Ace.

Until then, buy a cross bike or mountain bike. Remember, with bikes quantity is more important than quality.

I don't want to start a mechanical versus electronic war here (okay, maybe I do), but the thought of putting my bike 'on the grid' to charge it up before a ride is kind of silly. I don't care how amazingly lightning quick and reliable the shifting is, I can't say I've whined too much about cable shifting from any of the newest groups. I'd SAVE your money and buy traditional group set.

A traditional cable shifter-based group set will be:
a) lighter than Di2,
b) Cheaper
c) No need to charge or replace a worn out battery, adding to your BC Hydro bill.
d) You won't have to worry about missing a club ride because you forgot to recharge the battery.

This trend towards electrics is kind of a waste of $$$. That coming from someone that loves to buy bike stuff... bikes bikes bikes.

[AlW]

I would say 105 or rival is more than good enough for the needs of anyone in this club. The differences are very small from there up. If you can find a good deal on some lightly used 7800 dura ace, or something like that, that might be worth it to pick it up.

+1.

I've got 105 shifters and they do a fine job. I believe Shimano pushes down their technology, so what 105 provides today is probably equivalent to what Dura Ace gave you 5 years ago.

From the Shimano web site:

New Shimano 105 is new for 2011 and incorporates many of the benefits that were originally developed for Dura-Ace 7900 series and integrated into Ultegra 6700 series. The new group is available in Sterling Silver for a classic road cosmetic or Lodestar Black for a more contemporary look. Overall, performance and durability is enhanced while the entire group manages to drop almost 30 grams from the prior generation.

[Katie]

Shimano is also nice and quiet when coasting. If you like to scare people as you approach from behind, the roar of a campy freehub is awesome.

No No - if you want to REALLY scare someone, sneak up behind them on the silent Shimano hubs, then grab your front canti and make it scream! But be careful you don't laugh so hard you fall off your bike though, cause it's a good trick.

[Josh.E]

Until then, buy a cross bike or mountain bike. Remember, with bikes quantity is more important than quality.

Well Roland my plan was to get new components for my Devinci frame, then buy a nice cross frame and put my old components on it, that way I've got a cross/winter bike for next year, and a summer bike that I'd really look forward to putting some miles on. Which also brings me to, if anyone knows of a decent cross frame 54-56cm for sale, please let me know.

You should look around for a new fully built cross bike with ultegra already on it, then just swap the groupos. That'll be far cheaper than buying a separate new groupo and a cross frame.

[Dave Spiers]

Jeremy,
For my 10 cents I would go for the Ultegra, the quality is the same as Dura Ace the only differece being the name and a slight weight advantage. If you do decide to go for Shimano I may be able to help you out.
As for DI2, apparently I am nuts as I have this on my Addict and would not trade it for any. The shifting is far superior than anything out there at the moment but its $$$. I used this all last summer at every Wednesday race, the hill climbs, Jordan river and recently Maui ( some really long rides with a ton of shifting) To date I have recharged the battery three times. Fingers crossed.

Good luck on making the choice that suits you.

[Rolf]

Did someone say "Italian sausage"?

[sylvan]

Ultegra, Force or Campy Chorus - they're all epic high-end gruppos, under-rated because of the need to play up the top-of-the line groups. So pick whichever shifting mechanism you prefer. Chorus is a gorgeous carbon 11-speed group. Josh is way right that 105 or Rival is plenty good enough.

[sylvan]

What's best is ....more miles! (Note, that wasn't in km. Kms are too short. And too new. )

This is the correct answer, of course. My former Eastern Bloc coach, Dieter, would always talk miles. If it wasn't 100 miles, what was the point? It was too easy to feel comfortable having done 100 km on an easy day. Not acceptable. But it was kg for weight. "Too close to sixty!" he'd shriek. More miles for you! And no sausage!

[4827north]

You should look around for a new fully built cross bike with ultegra already on it, then just swap the groupos. That'll be far cheaper than buying a separate new groupo and a cross frame.

I agree with Josh, whether the 'cross bike has Sram Rival, Force, 105, or Ultegra, this is most likely your most economical bet. Find a complete 'cross bike with either of these on it already and move the 'good stuff' over to your road bike. To give you an idea, Chain Reaction Cycles, has Shimano Ultegra 6700 group set for about $775 full kit. Whereas on eBay currently there is a complete Van Dessel cross bike with full Ultegra (less brakes) for just under $2k. There have been even better deals than that. Keep in mind some parts may not port over. For example, if you buy a cross bike with a BB30 BB you'll have to be sure you can move the cranks over to your conventional BB shell on your road bike. And you'd have to buy calipers for the road bike. Those little things can add up.

[sylvan]

on eBay currently there is a complete Van Dessel cross bike with full Ultegra (less brakes) for just under $2k. There have been even better deals than that.

You can get a new Jake the Snake at Russ Hay's for $1500 with 105 and it looks really nice (pic below). Or you can get a Neuvation 'cross bike online for about $1350 with Force. That's a pretty staggering deal.

[Kevin F]

I'll weigh since I have just purchased Dura Ace 7900 for my Cervelo. My Soma has Ultegra \ Dura Ace mixed 9-speed which I have been riding for the last 10 years (various bikes).

The difference...for me...hmm.. I can't really give a wow type answer between the two. Yes positively the 10 speed 7900 is better. By better, I mean more direct, crisper and quicker shifts..however, I wasn't entirely displeased with my 9-sp old kit. In other words the 'better' is marginal. I too am a bit of slave to bling ...so the look and weight of Dura Ace 7900 won my heart not my mind.

The practical man picks Ultergra.

PS don't get SRAM Red it totally sucks... ( that was just for Brad. I have never tried it. I am a creature of habit for Shimano stuff)

[Lister Farrar]

Seriously though, the second tier groupos are such great value, Force, Ultegra and Chorus all work very well for a lot less money.

I heard the Campagnolo USA boss quoted once. He said: "We have three levels of components. Amateur, professional, and .....dentist." (!)