UCI Group Sprint Rule
Moderator: mfarnham
UCI Group Sprint Rule
In light of Renshaw's "tactics" this afternoon in Bourg-lès-Valence, this little collection of sprint infractions makes for an interesting review of UCI Rule 2.3.036.
http://vimeo.com/12995559
Quote: "... [A]s anyone who has ... participated in a group gallop at pretty much any level can tell you, line deviation is almost a prerequisite for getting across the line first."
The headbutts just looked bad; the subsequent squeeze he put on Farrar on the inside was worse, methinks.
http://vimeo.com/12995559
Quote: "... [A]s anyone who has ... participated in a group gallop at pretty much any level can tell you, line deviation is almost a prerequisite for getting across the line first."
The headbutts just looked bad; the subsequent squeeze he put on Farrar on the inside was worse, methinks.
- Lister Farrar
- Posts: 3093
- Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:19 pm
Re: UCI Group Sprint Rule
That is a great review. Thx Rolf. The only quibble would be that where (around 1:54 to 2:00) the narrator says riders pushed other riders out of their way, it looks to me more like they held the riders ahead off their bars. I think there's a difference. And I'd argue the impact on the touched rider is so minimal, compared to the safety of the rider using a hand, that I'd give the benefit of any doubt to the rider behind.
Lister
"We're jammin', jammin',
And I hope you like jammin', too."
(Bob Marley)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QdwYY9rZL4
"We're jammin', jammin',
And I hope you like jammin', too."
(Bob Marley)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QdwYY9rZL4
- Lister Farrar
- Posts: 3093
- Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:19 pm
Re: UCI Group Sprint Rule
Another view of Renshaw's disqualification. One I agree with.
http://video.competitor.com/2010/07/cyc ... highlight/
http://video.competitor.com/2010/07/cyc ... highlight/
Lister
"We're jammin', jammin',
And I hope you like jammin', too."
(Bob Marley)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QdwYY9rZL4
"We're jammin', jammin',
And I hope you like jammin', too."
(Bob Marley)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QdwYY9rZL4
Re: UCI Group Sprint Rule
Hmm, have to say I agree with Lister after seeing the tape, looks like it was Dean that wasn't holding his line. One could agrue Renshaw's head movement was a bit over the top but as the commentator notes he can't take his hand off his bars and Dean is too far forward for him to use his shoulders. Giving up position there means his man can't sprint for the win, so he uses his head, literally. To to honest, it looks pretty bad but the chances of causing a crash like that seem much lower then if he had let Dean come across and their wheels had touched. So, disqualify him from the stage, maybe, but kick him out of the tour? Seems like a rushed decision.
Re: UCI Group Sprint Rule
Yeah, I don't know nothin' 'bout nothin', but seeing Dean's post-race interview and the casual way he said "it was all just part of sprinting", instead of being apoplectic at the head-butting suggests he did intentionally lean into Renshaw.
Still, Renshaw closes out Tyler on the barriere, right after looking back and seeing that he was there. No question that was intentional. Whether that's grounds for an outright DQ is a question for our sports lawyer.
Still, Renshaw closes out Tyler on the barriere, right after looking back and seeing that he was there. No question that was intentional. Whether that's grounds for an outright DQ is a question for our sports lawyer.
Re: UCI Group Sprint Rule
Some of the boys have been twittwatting about it today. I agree with Georgie that tomorrow could be a wild and epic stage.
@markrenshaw1: I think today's punishment was very harsh. I never imagined that i would ever be dq'd from the tdf. Very disappointed.
@mcewenrobbie: history shows that a headbutt will get dq'd from stg result (mcewen2005,Zabel 97)
@mcewenrobbie: history also shows that looking over shoulder at rival then taking them to barriers will also get u dq'd from stg results (cavendish2009)
@mcewenrobbie: history will now show that combining the 2 aforementioned tactics will get u sent home...greater than the sum of it's parts
@mcewenrobbie: just an observation people
@RobbieHunter: Just watched the sprint finish & Renshaw should not do that sh!!!t..good to see the coms booted his arse out the race.
@RobbieHunter: They damn good riders & there is no need for that at all..specially in 70km/h sprint..that's looking for ppl to crash.
@CadelOfficial: @mmcnamee Yes, read Mark R is out of the race. I'm no bunch sprinter, but it was not exactly subtle. Blocking Tyler was effective but...
@ghincapie: The last two days have been very un tour like.think the heat is really getting to everyone. Expecting fireworks tomorrow.
@joepabike: Seriously though, you can't thrice headbutt someone and try to sweep his sprinter and expect to be allowed to carry on...
@lancearmstrong: If anyone needs me during the TdF then contact my assistant Alphonse on twitter. He's @assistlance. No emoticons please.
@bradwiggins: <hasn't posted a twittwat since he blasted David Cameron back in May>
@markrenshaw1: I think today's punishment was very harsh. I never imagined that i would ever be dq'd from the tdf. Very disappointed.
@mcewenrobbie: history shows that a headbutt will get dq'd from stg result (mcewen2005,Zabel 97)
@mcewenrobbie: history also shows that looking over shoulder at rival then taking them to barriers will also get u dq'd from stg results (cavendish2009)
@mcewenrobbie: history will now show that combining the 2 aforementioned tactics will get u sent home...greater than the sum of it's parts
@mcewenrobbie: just an observation people
@RobbieHunter: Just watched the sprint finish & Renshaw should not do that sh!!!t..good to see the coms booted his arse out the race.
@RobbieHunter: They damn good riders & there is no need for that at all..specially in 70km/h sprint..that's looking for ppl to crash.
@CadelOfficial: @mmcnamee Yes, read Mark R is out of the race. I'm no bunch sprinter, but it was not exactly subtle. Blocking Tyler was effective but...
@ghincapie: The last two days have been very un tour like.think the heat is really getting to everyone. Expecting fireworks tomorrow.
@joepabike: Seriously though, you can't thrice headbutt someone and try to sweep his sprinter and expect to be allowed to carry on...
@lancearmstrong: If anyone needs me during the TdF then contact my assistant Alphonse on twitter. He's @assistlance. No emoticons please.
@bradwiggins: <hasn't posted a twittwat since he blasted David Cameron back in May>
Re: UCI Group Sprint Rule
Blocking (like Renshaw did do Farrar at the end) is not a cause for a DQ. Farrar was not yet coming around him, and all he did was close the hole to not let him through. He never put Farrar in danger, or pinched him.
Cheap tactics, but not illegal.
The elbow hook that Dean pulls on Renshaw to try to get by him is the worst move of the bunch. The headbutt is to get Dean away from his bars without taking a hand off the bars. It looks bad, but I think is actually fairly tame in response to what just happened to him. I don't think he should've been booted.
Cheap tactics, but not illegal.
The elbow hook that Dean pulls on Renshaw to try to get by him is the worst move of the bunch. The headbutt is to get Dean away from his bars without taking a hand off the bars. It looks bad, but I think is actually fairly tame in response to what just happened to him. I don't think he should've been booted.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Re: UCI Group Sprint Rule
The same hacks Lister led us to get into it with a little more depth here (tanboy is particularly irritating -- he should just let Ron McLean get on with it):
http://video.competitor.com/2010/07/cyc ... -11-extra/
I don't know about this just being a block, Josh, it looks like Renshaw moves left after he looks back and when Farrar's front wheel is already half-way up his rear. This goes to my earlier questions on the forum about when does one "own their line" and when can others move in on it.
http://video.competitor.com/2010/07/cyc ... -11-extra/
I don't know about this just being a block, Josh, it looks like Renshaw moves left after he looks back and when Farrar's front wheel is already half-way up his rear. This goes to my earlier questions on the forum about when does one "own their line" and when can others move in on it.
Re: UCI Group Sprint Rule
You're right, Farrar is actually coming around before Renshaw starts to block him. Arguable for sure, I think the fact that he doesn't actually fully pinch him into the wall, but instead just makes him shut it down enough to keep him from contending the sprint with Cav is enough to not cross the "dangerous" line, at least in the context of a bunch of pro sprinters who are really used to these tactics.
Cheap for sure, but not that dangerous IMO. Had he continued across into the wall, it would be a different story.
It's like the video says, at some point, if you want to win in a sprint you have to deviate from your line. The UCI rule is pretty vague, and usually only seems to ever get enforced when there is an accident.
Cheap for sure, but not that dangerous IMO. Had he continued across into the wall, it would be a different story.
It's like the video says, at some point, if you want to win in a sprint you have to deviate from your line. The UCI rule is pretty vague, and usually only seems to ever get enforced when there is an accident.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Re: UCI Group Sprint Rule
Interesting take from Gerard Vroomen:
http://www.cervelo.com/en_us/news-blog/ ... tions/775/
http://www.cervelo.com/en_us/news-blog/ ... tions/775/