Time for a meeting?

[RyanC]

Folks,

I have not been a member long with TS but I am happy to be part of this group. I think we have a really special mixture of people and an potential to grow and have an influence within the community that I have not seen since I was part of Escape Velocity on the mainland back in 1992.

As someone who, himself, has exercised some seriously bad judgment several weeks ago, I hang my head in shame. See (http://tripleshotcycling.servebbs.com/v ... f=1&t=1111) I know how easy it is to give into the opportunity to be a f*cktard when testosterone overcomes common sense. The final sprint, as Dylan so aptly put it, has a larger potential impact than taking the life of the foolish; it can derail the good that can come out of this club collectively and individually. We have had several noteworthy incidents of late that raise the question of governance and rider safety. I wonder if we need to make a decision about what kind of rides we want and perhaps enforce a larger agenda, if not look at larger choices about the direction of the club.

I had a fortuitous meeting with two long time members of TS as I rode home from Saturday's OBB ride. The ensuing conversation on point left me with several things I would like to lay on the table (that is, if I still have a modicum of respect left within this club). If we agree this is a timely matter to discuss, we need to consider that the online forum is limited relative to a face-to-face meeting in its ability to drive home messages. In any case, we should talk soon before someone gets seriously hurt.

I suggest the following points need to be addressed:

• 1) rider safety (rules we need to create regarding racing/sprinting on open streets in the wee hours of the morning)

• 2) club vs individual agenda (what do rides need to look like to ensure point #1?)

• 3) community responsibility (i.e. the perception of cyclists generally based on our growing public profile as a club)

• 4) rider retention: long time members may be refusing to join us any longer because of our disregard for point #1

Those are my thoughts. Any seconds on the meeting idea?

Ryan

[Bob]

Well said Ryan. I support the idea of a meeting to address these issues.

Bob

[jeremy]

maybe we could address this somewhat tomorrow seeing as a good bunch of us will be up in nanaimo, but I think a meeting and a re-assertion of our club policy's is a great idea.
I think alot of these problems have come to light because of our huge growth in the last 2 months, if we set a rule like:
new riders - team up with vets so they can let them know what we're all about,
or go over what is expected out of riders while they are on a tripleshot ride while still in the parking lot as to not tarnish our shiny reputation.

[Paul C.]

Peter, Roland , Ryan and other 3shoters. First time for me doing a posting ..... will it work? I joined about 2 months ago and this week came out Fri and Sat. for first time. Its a great club. I have alot of past experience with starting a large running club in Vancouver 27 years ago and been a member of a number of running and Tri clubs, including in Victoria Team west coast and currently P.I.H. Plus I have been a race director for road races and Sri Chinmoy triathlon. Also besides being an RMT I was in Marketing and promotional work for 16 years including 5 with NIKE......so I was thinking..... I may be able to contribute to recent discussion re meeting, club direction etc. Say Hi [I'm on the yellow and white Norco with new candycane bar tape ] or direct contact at 250 419 2426 or pcmassagetherapy@hotmail.com see you soon Paul Christopher

[Brian S]

Ryan--very well said. I think your post pulls together many of the threads of recent conversations (etc), and I agree that in order to keep us on track to being a great organization, we need to follow up on your points within the club.

[Lister Farrar]

Great suggestions Ryan. Coupla random thoughts came to mind.

It's easy to beat yourself up when you goof up. We have a really good group and none of us wants to threaten that. But this chat shows we're still doing the right things.

I haven't been riding with the A, or A+ groups much, but I haven't seen that much I'm worried about. Maybe riding with the newer riders is good for one's perspective?

I'm noticing more and more TSr's demonstrating the stuff we say we value; pushes for weaker riders on hills, filling gaps, going back for dropped riders, avoiding the jam and drop riding. Could be where I'm riding (teens, B's) though, but it's a lot more than one or two of us.

In the earliest days I had with the group, the strongest guys got their sillies out with long, hard pulls on the front during the jam, rather than jumping and attacking. Coffee bragging points came more from how awesome a pull was than whether the sprint was won. (I must admit I like the sprint too though.) Long term members might remember Jamie Falk motorpacing us along Dallas, or Bob Cameron gradually winding it up until we all cracked.

If jumping and swervy riding is happening now (and I say 'if' cause I haven't been with them), then maybe we could look at that. Jumping means weaker riders have to go to their limit to catch and stay on, can't come through in the rotation and start looking to swing out of the line. People make mistakes at their limit. Like the Wednesday nighters, that can mean lots of big accelerations and then the front riders freewheeling looking at each other while the back is braking like crazy and spreading across the road. There's bound to be twitchy riding in those circumstances. Protour teams hire very strong pros to ride tempo (fast but steady on the front) partly so their stars can avoid that.

Which is a good segue to racing, or not. The rides are fun when they push you. But it's not racing. Jumpy, more aggressive riding is safer in racing because everyone there signed up for that. That's leaving aside closed roads and marshals etc. which we don't have.

PS. I second the meeting idea. People learn this stuff in different ways. I think an experienced rider beside you is the best way to get the hang of it, but for others it might be talking it through, and others, a business card-sized list of behaviour points to keep in mind might work.

[Josh.E]

I'm definitely not a long term member either, but I would be fully into attending and participating in a club meeting to talk about the direction of the club.
Tripleshot, as of late, with the rapid growth and infusion of all sorts of new members' experience and skills, seems to be in a very unique position to have a huge impact on local cycling on multiple levels, from beginner rides right up to a full racing team.
The growth in the last 16 months since I started riding with Tripleshot has been quite inspiring to say the least. So much great energy looking to be harnessed.

[JohnT]

I'm not against a meeting, but I think that we'd solve many problems by relocating the sprints. Tuesday seems to work well (1st two sprints). There's plenty of opportunity to stretch things out before each sprint and even when we're together, it seems fairly safe. Certainly a car coming out of Henderson Rec. centre would be a problem, but relative to Fri and Sun, it's good. Having the 3rd Tues and 1st Friday sprint in the Beacon Hill Circle (e.g., on lap two) might be better than on the fast run down to Ogden Point. Maybe be could remap the end of the Sunday ride to get ourselves onto a vacant stetch of pavement. These ideas don't address everything, but might help with the safety issue. Great, bye the way, that we're trying to deal with this before a serious accident.

John

[Rolf]

There does seem to be a recent increase in "incidents"; an increase almost certainly related to our size and a large influx of new riders. Discussion and a little more structure would probably be helpful.

I still consider myself a newbie, green member with a lot to learn; I've only been drinking post-ride coffee in a tight-fitting costume since last August. But I'm member number 69 on a forum that now numbers 140!

I think riding rules, safety directives, etiquette etc. are well laid out in other parts of the forum and everyone's seen them at some point. But as Lister said, so much of our organizational learning happens at the personal level, on the bike -- when newer riders spend time surrounded by longer-term TripleShotters and learn from example.

I think the focus of our efforts should therefore be on ways to ensure the makeup of each riding group meets individual riders' needs and also encourages the transfer of skills and good habits. The makeup of each riding group is determined by who rolls out of the Pareto lot with whom. So perhaps better communication of what is expected on each ride, and an effort to match up group-ride veterans with newbies would help.

I think there's also a direct correlation between riding like you're racing (e.g. doing aggressive, silly things in the sprint) and not knowing the people you're riding with. Anonymity breeds contempt -- or something. If you get to know the names and characters around you, you are much more likely to always ride with respect, therefore making the group safer.

Some of my brainstorming ideas that could help with this...

• Suggest staying for coffee is mandatory on anyone's first 5 rides.
  Create a directory of names, bios and photos of each member (wearing helmets) on the website.
  Encourage newbies to give a 30-second, post-ride, oral bio to the group over coffee on their third ride.
  Create nametags you pin to your posterior (asstags? -- naturally featuring a unicorn and an elf).
  Have more opportunities to drink beer together at Spinnaker's.

Another thought: one of the things that makes the TripleShot experience so great is the lack of structure and flexibility of the group. The simplicity of our organization is what makes us appealing to such a diverse group of riders. Different people have different tolerances/predilections for socialization, and this sport seems to attract the highly driven, loner type. Some riders will undoubtedly drift away should we ask any more of them than just showing up with their bike. So we should tread carefully when considering further formalization of the Pre-Dawn Cafe Destination Cycling experience!

As for a meeting: how about some Tuesday or Friday morning, 7:15 a.m. at Shoal Point Moka House? I haven't ridden Sundays recently, but Tues/Fri seem to get a consistently good turnout. It seems a little strange to consider a different time/venue for a meeting -- since it's our collective availability those mornings that brought us all together in the first place.

The most important thing, by the sound of it, would be to ensure the possibly disaffected, "long time members" Ryan refers to can make it out and let us know what they're thinking, and what would bring them back.

[Lister Farrar]

Good suggestion John.

Not to derail the discussion, but anyone else hearing Red Green in their head these days?

Red: "Remember, I'm pulling for you. We're all in this together."

Red: [Being dangerous is] what gets the juices flowing -- the adrenaline, the testosterone, the hydrogen peroxide...

All Lodge members: (Reciting the "Men's Prayer") I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess.

[AlW]

Further to what JohnT said, while it's important to ensure that we all act in a safe and responsible manner during sprints, I think it's equally important that the sprints are in a location free of obstacles and potential moving hazards (one of the reasons the Tuesday am sprint was moved).

In addition to traffic, the final km of the Friday sprint (Mile '0' to Oswego St) is narrow and littered with intersecting streets, parked cars and driveways. I don't know if it's just me (I'm a bit of a chicken to start with), but I'm always a little freaked out zipping down this section of road in a pace line.

I'd like to propose the crosswalk on Dallas road south of the Beacon Hill flagpole as an alternative. Clear line of sight, no parked cars, no driveways, and only 2 intersections (Circle Drive and Cook Street) in the last 500m. It's also a slight uphill so speeds are likely to be lower than the 55km/h+ we often see in the current spot.

Here's the google streeview:

http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&q=dall ... .5,,0,6.45

[BryanS]

Al, I really like your idea of moving the sprint to this location. Besides the parked cars and hidden streets where our sprints are now, I also find the road to be fairly narrow. Especially in a bigger pack I catch myself almost riding on the other side of the road at times . Your location would also give us some time for our legs to cool down.

-Bryan S

[Josh.E]

I would suggest continuing around doing the beacon hill park loop and finishing at the 2nd crosswalk by the petting zoo. The road is wide there, and there is very little traffic early in the morning. Much less than anywhere on dallas.
Lead groups that get there early could do extra laps until other groups are all in, and we could all go for coffee around the same time.

[Bob]

All I've learned after over 20 years of racing is how much I suck and how little I know.

So my only comment is that when training in a large group like this where there is a huge divergence in experience levels and agendas, it has to be more about hitting yourself in the head with a shovel.... not your friends and teamates.

Bob

[Josh.E]

Bob

you need one of these !!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VDeJ7rLUYU

I actually have one I use for skiing you could borrow. I also have all sorts of different shovels.
Be warned though. I did get a ticket for riding my bike to work while wearing it.

Josh

[Brian S]

http://www.steephill.tv/players/youtube ... KPIg&w=640
ouch