Tuesday Ride Route

[mfarnham]

Hi folks,

Lansdowne is having construction done on it and will soon be closed for the entire run from Caddy Bay to Foul Bay. That will eliminate "the box" from our Tuesday ride for around 2 months. *Hopefully* it won't be closed tomorrow, in which case we will proceed as usual. However, if it is closed, I'm going to suggest the following alternatives (thanks to several people for several useful suggestions):

If Lansdowne is partly open, but not all the way to Henderson, we can do this variant:
https://www.plotaroute.com/route/551273

If Lansdowne is completely closed, we should try this:
https://www.plotaroute.com/route/551274

Note that we should *single up* along the southern edge of the box (as we already do) given that we'll be on narrow streets. We should probably remain singled up along Foul Bay, as it gets tight along Camosun. Return to 2-up or rotating on Henderson. Recall also that we're singling up for the turn from Cedar Hill X onto Caddy Bay.

The first couple times we are on new territory, everyone should slow down a bit and be extra cautious and watchful.

We'll see how it goes tomorrow. We can always tweak the plan later if people notice problems.

Best,
Martin

[Andrew]

Thanks Martin. It looks to be open at present, just drove the box Martin. It may make sense just to do the Friday loop on Tuesday’s or do ring road or some other loop without traffic lights??

[mfarnham]

Ring Road is a possibility. Good to know we have another week to consider options. Thanks for scouting!

Martin

[Louise Wallace]

Or.... We could do something completely different for a few months. Going to Beacon Hill Park on Thursdays last year was a nice change for the month.
Louise

[Greg F]

I vote for 'Route 2' regardless of Henderson's status. I think having a sweeping right, then left then right again will be a challenge to maintain a smooth paceline; keeping it to four RH turns will be smoother.

Also recommend we agree to do 3 of the boxes, at least the first time out, to see what the timing is to get to Beacon Hill, with sprints on the first and third lap.

I think it'll be a fun challenge - taking a right onto Foul Bay for that punchy climb will be a good workout. Each group can work something out, but I think it'd be really good for everyone to giv'r up the hill, quick rolling re-group by Camosun (ie, those in front soft-pedal till the last person gets on), then quickly ramp it back up again for the sprint (with everyone still a little tired). Open to ideas from others of course.

I know the Tuesday sprints used to be on the Ring road, but from what I see on Thursdays, I fear there may be too many pedestrians, commuters, working trucks, buses and deer in that area for a larger group sprint (larger than the 4-5 people that are usually TTT). Cedar Hill X has its own risks but on most rides I've been on, the road is wide-open, you can see all the way down it, and there is little traffic or other issues (tho I believe there was an accident a couple years ago?).

And if all else fails, there's always cyclocross....

[Rolf]

But, traffic light.

So, cyclocross!

[mfarnham]

Go back to that subforum you crawled out of, Rolf.

Martin

[Rolf]

Sorry. Just lapsed back into following wheels again.

[Alan]

Like Rolf, I too have escaped from the cyclocross forum to lurk in the bigger Tripleshot community.
I can clearly see that this part of the forum is lacking in gif activity. So, below, I've asked my cat if he can try to compose something intelligent...

[Bosie]

At last- the prospect of something intelligent coming from Alan's desk

[JTyre]

Martin, Greg
The "downes" (i.e. below Lansdowne) are also awash with construction. I'll check them out on my ride home today.

Rolf, Alan
Say no more, come back home, and don't ever leave me alone at the cyclocross sub-forum again. These people here are bad people.

[Greg F]

I'm sure whatever the decision is, we'll all be like:

[Kevin L]

I want to echo Louise's sentiment and pursue the option that was brought up at coffee yesterday morning. We could do the loop seen in the pic here, clockwise, 5-6 times. We could either do the sprint past the middle school on Gordon Head Rd, or past the stadium on McGill Rd.

To get there, we would follow Caddy Bay Rd up past the golf course (omit the regular Uplands tour) and hang a left onto Cedar Hill X. The loop is 2.7 km, meaning if we complete 5 loops, the ride would be 1km shorter than the regular Tuesday route, and doing 6 loops would make it 1.7km longer. (Maybe the A's do 6 loops, everyone else does 5?). Sprint on 2 (or 3) and 5, or on 3 and 6.

After the loops, head back down Cedar Hill X and back along the waterfront as usual.

[JTyre]

Hi Martin,

Probably figured this out already, but routes involving territory south of Lansdowne are unworkable at this time. Mid Downe and Neil are blocked with construction and Allenby is dodgy at Westdowne. And then there are the traffic lights and stop signs.

I think Kevin L's route makes a lot of sense. For distance, one could go further along McKenzie to Finnerty before turning right but then buses may be an issue.

John (Vive la Cyclocross)

[mfarnham]

Agreed. The "Downes" are a disaster. Took a spin through there this afternoon and it's all construction mess through there. So I think those routes are off the table. Allenby is quite narrow too, with parked cars on both sides and a stop sign in the middle.

Craig proposed the following principles for a good box replacement which I've modified only slightly:

*Flattish
*Safe. Few cars/ pedestrians /driveways; wide roads
*Not disruptive to the community
*Few stop signs/ traffic lights

Keep these in mind when considering alternatives.

The route that Kevin (and Louise, Ann, and Lister) proposes has merit.
https://www.plotaroute.com/route/551105

We'd want to be careful turning onto McKenzie. And we'd want to be careful around the crosswalk at Midgard. It's not going to have a lot of traffic between 6:15 and 6:45am, but it's a main pedestrian (and bike!) entrance to campus and pedestrians are usually unlit and often dressed in dark clothes. Any fast pace would need to start *after* the crosswalk. This box is 2.6km around. For comparison's sake our usual box is 4.2km around. So we might want to run 3-lap sets, instead of the usual 2. We could always add some extra laps and an extra sprint at BHP if we want more length.

Andrew N. proposed the following: https://www.plotaroute.com/route/552187 It's 3.1km around. So again, maybe 3-lap sets. It's very good at minimizing exposure to driveways. There's a stop sign turning onto Currie and again at Beach, so we'd want to go neutral and careful on the north end of this box (though that side of the box is super short...not a big deal)

plotaroute.com is kind of fun. I recommend playing around with it.

Martin

[LouiseF]

As someone who hasn't really been on a road ride since summer, not sure that I qualify for giving any input but since I spend a lot of time in the particular neck of the woods that is currently being discussed on Kevin's map, I agree with the risk factors Martin has pointed out - the cross walk and how busy Mackenzie can be by 645 am.

Gordon Head Road as it heads toward Campus View Elementary is more downhill than it may appear. So keeping speeds safe approaching that crosswalk might be an issue. If we sprinted on McGill we'd have both the in/out to the law building parking lot and the Vikes stadium to contend with. Personally, I'd prefer a sprint zone that doesn't have roads feeding into it.

But aside from that its actually a pretty cool route, with a variety of turns to keep it interesting. Maybe someone could pre-ride it at 645 and see how busy Mackenzie is and if there really is much cross-walk and parking lot traffic at that time.

Andrew's route looks good too.

[Rolf]

1. Like Louise, I hesitate to get involved since I’m more likely these days to approach any box at the perpendicular (as happened Tuesday), but I see hazards with each of these routes. Corners are the real issue, I think. To my mind Ring Road is the least hazardous, since we’d at least have the right of way all the way around. One way to minimize the risk of large group sprints would be to restrict groups to 10 or so. Pedestrian crossings would then also only be about as bothersome as they are for TTTT. Roadie morning turnout seems super low these days anyway...

2. Mr. Fennell’s exceptional use of GIF-ery above puts all us gratuitous GIF-ers to shame.

[John D]

FTR, at a meeting of UVic's Campus Cycling Plan Advisory Team yesterday the Midard/Gordon Head crossing and the Mackenzie/McGill entry were identified as two of the three most dangerous "hot-spots" for cyclists.

I use both of these entrances to UVic quite a bit and would be reluctant to recommend any Tuesday group route that includes them. There can be car/bike/pedestrian traffic at both spots, even before 7:00am.

J.

[JTyre]

As with Louise and Rolf, I don't deserve to comment 'cause I've been obsessing on CX'ing, and because (as Alan knows) I'm a "lover not sprinter" (apologies if you've heard that line before).

Regarding a route, is this the one? It's flattish (kinda), safe (as can be), non-disruptive (as if that's possible), has no traffic lights and one stop'ish sign. Can't run down the pro's and con's right now 'cause I have a real job.

Back to Greg F's gif. I'm confused, does it mean we'll be bumping and jostling regardless? Or, does it mean we're all going to join Rolf and Alan and start cross-dressing? Please explain.

John

p.s. I like Andrew's route as well. I don't like Rolf's suggestion because I don't like to agree with him ever (happy face).

[Lister Farrar]

I want to echo Louise's sentiment and pursue the option that was brought up at coffee yesterday morning. We could do the loop seen in the pic here, clockwise, 5-6 times. We could either do the sprint past the middle school on Gordon Head Rd, or past the stadium on McGill Rd.

To get there, we would follow Caddy Bay Rd up past the golf course (omit the regular Uplands tour) and hang a left onto Cedar Hill X. The loop is 2.7 km, meaning if we complete 5 loops, the ride would be 1km shorter than the regular Tuesday route, and doing 6 loops would make it 1.7km longer. (Maybe the A's do 6 loops, everyone else does 5?). Sprint on 2 (or 3) and 5, or on 3 and 6.

After the loops, head back down Cedar Hill X and back along the waterfront as usual.

Cedar hill makes more sense for the sprint. Gordon head is slightly downhill plus has the cross walk, and Mcgill is after the Mackenzie corner. Cedar hill cross has two gentle turn lane bends before the sprint (vs corners leading into it), and no driveways on the right.