A couple times each term, I give my students a break from my usual rambling , eye-roll-inducing lectures. I call it a “midterm”. In that spirit and in light of today’s A2 ride, I give you the following:
1) You are approaching a T-intersection where you have a stop sign and the cross traffic has no stop. You need to make a left turn. It is foggy, so visibility is limited. You should
A) hammer.
B) hammer and yell “Clear!” even if you can’t see far enough into the fog to know it’s actually clear.
C) slow up and call “Slowing!”, knowing that a fast-moving car could appear out of the fog at any moment.
D) call “Stopping!”, stop and check for oncoming traffic in the fog.
2) You have proceeded incautiously through an intersection and a car (with the right of way) is laying on its horn at you. Half the group has stopped to yield right of way to the car. Your next move should be to
A) flip off the driver.
B) use the opportunity to attack the rest of the group that safely stopped at the stop sign.
C) not attack, per se, but keep pedalling at cruising speed because, “If they really want to catch us they ought to work harder.”
D) wave a sincere apology to the driver you’ve just cut off, and wait for the rest of the group to catch up.
3) Attacking (or failing to wait up) on a hazard is a problem because
A) it is unsporting.
B) it is dangerous, for it causes those around you to take unnecessary risks in the moment knowing they might get dropped if they don’t hurry up.
C) it is dangerous, for it provides incentives for people to take unnecessary risks in the future knowing that they might get dropped if they don’t hurry up.
D) all of the above.
4) If you find yourself in a group that has just ditched 6 riders who made a safe choice in the presence of a hazard, you should
A) Stay quiet, because you need to save oxygen for your legs.
B) Stay quiet, because “the group knows best”.
C) Stay quiet, because “there are others more experienced than me who would speak up or slow down if it was the right thing to do.”
D) Speak up and call for the group to wait up for the sake of safety and camaraderie.
Inferring from actions on the A2 ride this morning, the group’s collective answers to the first 2 questions were 1) B and 2) C.
For those who need an answer key, it will be supplied upon request at coffee.
Martin
Multiple choice exam
Moderator: mfarnham
Re: Multiple choice exam
Thank you very much Martin. It would be nice if everybody was required to take your witty/sardonic "midterm exam", particularly the A2 offenders this morning. The incident at the corner of Ferndale and Grandview was a classic triple Dumb Ass Move; it was reckless, thoughtless and totally unnecessary. It also ticked off a motorist who had every right to blare their horn ..... they may be the ones to honk at us next week to "get the hell off the road" and we'll wonder why they are so uptight.
The most unsettling aspect is highlighted in your last question. I have to think that the group, or at the very least, the tail end of the group that dashed in front of the car, HAD to know that some of us were separated by the car. The lead riders took "US" through the intersection when clearly we couldn't all make it, and then the last riders through didn't think to call a steady knowing that they just barely made it. To compound things, and it was pretty surprising, nobody seemed to care that 7 riders from the group were no longer there. That's not dropping a bunch of riders that can't quite keep up, that's being a collective _________. ( Moderator might not like the word you choose to insert ).
Not sure how it will happen, but we just need to come to a near stop rather than slow slightly at stop signs. If everybody complied, then we would ALL know what to expect at intersections and there would be none of this damn-I'd-better-go-or-I'll-be-dropped mentality. During a recent ride, a very strong rider from Vancouver joined us and witnessed one of our sort-of-slowing-at-a-stop-sign routine and was clearly confused and NOT impressed. He shook his head and muttered "what was that?".
I hope most of us pass your exam.
Andrew
The most unsettling aspect is highlighted in your last question. I have to think that the group, or at the very least, the tail end of the group that dashed in front of the car, HAD to know that some of us were separated by the car. The lead riders took "US" through the intersection when clearly we couldn't all make it, and then the last riders through didn't think to call a steady knowing that they just barely made it. To compound things, and it was pretty surprising, nobody seemed to care that 7 riders from the group were no longer there. That's not dropping a bunch of riders that can't quite keep up, that's being a collective _________. ( Moderator might not like the word you choose to insert ).
Not sure how it will happen, but we just need to come to a near stop rather than slow slightly at stop signs. If everybody complied, then we would ALL know what to expect at intersections and there would be none of this damn-I'd-better-go-or-I'll-be-dropped mentality. During a recent ride, a very strong rider from Vancouver joined us and witnessed one of our sort-of-slowing-at-a-stop-sign routine and was clearly confused and NOT impressed. He shook his head and muttered "what was that?".
I hope most of us pass your exam.
Andrew
Re: Multiple choice exam
Hi Martin et al.
You highlight an important issue. This seems to be becoming more prevalent in the more "competitive" rides (A1/ A2). When we are angering motorists, its never good.
We have taken steps to avoid situations like this on the Tuesday ride. Maybe we should take similar steps on the Friday ride where there are a number of points where decisions need to be made quickly on the fly and a wrong call, whilst OK for the front riders, is potentially disastrous for the back. The entry onto Blenkinsop, Ash etc..
An issue I think is under appreciated is that on the A1 and A2 ride, we often have newer riders testing themselves on these rides (I count myself amongst them). The stronger riders, who often have better bike handling skills, get to these crunch points first, at speed, and are able to make a call that is not marginal for them in front of the oncoming traffic. The people at the back, are then in a very precarious position whereby, they are tempted to jump in front of the car, or have to brake in a very precarious situation. Whilst its no one fault, human nature dictates that its not a great situation.
Our rides are supposed to be fun and social. Its not going to be fun if someone ends up seriously injured because of a misjudgment involving a car. There are plenty of opportunities for stronger riders to blow away the weaker ones that dont require jumping in front of oncoming traffic- Ash, Caddie Bay, KGT etc..
Maybe more "neutral" areas are a good idea. I would hate to mess with the "competitive" nature of these rides, but its important to stay safe while having fun. We need to find the balance, and if we are having more near misses, then its likely the balance is tilting in the wrong direction...
My 2 cents.
Craig
You highlight an important issue. This seems to be becoming more prevalent in the more "competitive" rides (A1/ A2). When we are angering motorists, its never good.
We have taken steps to avoid situations like this on the Tuesday ride. Maybe we should take similar steps on the Friday ride where there are a number of points where decisions need to be made quickly on the fly and a wrong call, whilst OK for the front riders, is potentially disastrous for the back. The entry onto Blenkinsop, Ash etc..
An issue I think is under appreciated is that on the A1 and A2 ride, we often have newer riders testing themselves on these rides (I count myself amongst them). The stronger riders, who often have better bike handling skills, get to these crunch points first, at speed, and are able to make a call that is not marginal for them in front of the oncoming traffic. The people at the back, are then in a very precarious position whereby, they are tempted to jump in front of the car, or have to brake in a very precarious situation. Whilst its no one fault, human nature dictates that its not a great situation.
Our rides are supposed to be fun and social. Its not going to be fun if someone ends up seriously injured because of a misjudgment involving a car. There are plenty of opportunities for stronger riders to blow away the weaker ones that dont require jumping in front of oncoming traffic- Ash, Caddie Bay, KGT etc..
Maybe more "neutral" areas are a good idea. I would hate to mess with the "competitive" nature of these rides, but its important to stay safe while having fun. We need to find the balance, and if we are having more near misses, then its likely the balance is tilting in the wrong direction...
My 2 cents.
Craig
Craig B.
-
barton bourassa
- Posts: 1141
- Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:16 am
Re: Multiple choice exam
I don't take part in these rides. I don't even have the strength to ride B2! I don't really know what goes on in these rides.
I just want to say Tripleshot Cycling started as an inclusive cycling club (Thank you Peter for waiting for me so many times and for always being encouraging in the early years). We are, or at least had been known, as an inclusive club. It is what makes us special, different.
I have heard members of our leadership, past and present, tell us very vocally, without equivocation, and often, THE MOST IMPORTANT PERSON ON ANY OF OUR RIDES IS EVERYONE ELSE!
Maybe this is something we need to shout out at the beginning of every ride.
Be good to each other. Watch out for each other. This is our culture.
Barton.
I just want to say Tripleshot Cycling started as an inclusive cycling club (Thank you Peter for waiting for me so many times and for always being encouraging in the early years). We are, or at least had been known, as an inclusive club. It is what makes us special, different.
I have heard members of our leadership, past and present, tell us very vocally, without equivocation, and often, THE MOST IMPORTANT PERSON ON ANY OF OUR RIDES IS EVERYONE ELSE!
Maybe this is something we need to shout out at the beginning of every ride.
Be good to each other. Watch out for each other. This is our culture.
Barton.
Barton Bourassa
Re: Multiple choice exam
Barton's reminder of our club culture spurred me to write this post—although I've successfully refrained from writing it for three days. Had I written it earlier, it would likely have been NSFW.
On Tuesday I rode B1. To be clear, we were the third fastest group on the road, after A1 and A2. At Pareto, it was clearly announced that the first two rides (A1 and A2) were drop rides. So everyone riding B1 knew it was a regular old, communal, no-drop Tripleshot ride.
Our group of 15 headed up Caddy Bay at a good "warm-up" clip. I could see a few legs wobbling as we held 30 going up the hill before the Uplands. We hit the loop and things picked up even more. On lap 2, our first sprint lap, I set a new PR, averaging over 40 km/h over the entire loop (remember, this was B1!) As we mashed it, doing over 40 for the entire pre-sprint stretch of Henderson, I noticed a good chunk of riders were absolutely on the rivet. Once we turned onto Cedar Hill X and the sprint properly opened up, guys shot out the back and the group fell apart very quickly. Despite closing in on Lund at the finish, I couldn't quite catch him, and then Bosie came by to add insult to injury. It was a fun sprint.
As we sat up, I had a good look back before approaching the corner of Caddy Bay. This has been drilled into me over seven years of Tripleshot Tuesdays. If you're at the pointy end of that sprint, you look back to assess the group and figure out how soft to pedal through the corner to let everything come back together. What I saw was riders strung out over 800m—nearly the entire length of Cedar Hill X Rd. When I looked forwards again, the front clutch of riders had barely lessened their pace and kept things fast through the corner.
I picked up a few more stragglers and started to chase a bit. By the time I was coming up the hill before the golf course, I was struggling to make serious gains on the front group, despite working fairly hard. I figured they all had stiff necks and hadn't been able to look back to realize they were only a group of 6 or 7, instead of 15. So I bellowed Steady Up! a few times. Which didn't seem to have any impact. As we passed the Uplands clubhouse, they were still pushing hard. I looked back. Our rearguard was just starting to come up the hill—we were still spread out over half a kilometre. So, figuring the poor guys at the front were deaf too, I pinned it and burned up right behind them, pointing out this was a B ride, the group had exploded, and we needed to steady up.
Chris Fraser turned around, looked me in the eye, and said "No, let's just roll." Others in this group later said they figured that they'd soft-pedalled enough at that point and if people hadn't caught up, then it was because they'd chosen not to stay with the ride. Someone had said Roll, and Roll they did—despite nearly half the group being still off the back.
I gnashed my teeth a bit and decided to drop back to make sure the stragglers were sorted. We were on Lansdowne by then. As I sat up, Neil came past, looking like he had wild tigers chasing him, doing everything he could to catch this front group of "soft-pedalers". Y'know: Fozzy? The huge, strong, ex-SAS dude with a backpack who can regularly ride 40 into a headwind (and crushes Jeeps with his face!) but couldn't catch this front group. A few others came by, puffing and wheezing on their "rest lap". Eventually, I managed to collect a group of five and we finished off our laps without ever again catching a whiff of the group we started out with from Pareto.
I've ridden A2 a bunch of times. I know that on an A ride it is perfectly acceptable (and part of the fun!) to shell folks off the back. However, I also know that same competitive mentality can lead to the problems Martin highlights with his brilliant exam above.
However, Tuesday was not an A ride. It was damned fast, but it was also a no-drop ride. As Barton points out, the inclusive, no-drop group ride is the heart and soul of this club. It's the manifestation of Peter's golden rule, helpfully set out in all-caps above. This is the cooperative and mutually supportive spirit on which this club was built. And the riders with the greatest responsibility to carry this torch are those at the front of a ride.
If you're on the front, you should be looking back after a hill or a sprint. If you don't see the full group behind you, you should only Roll when you have some concrete assurance that anyone off the back has communicated their wish to be there. And if you rolled out of Pareto intending to do something different on Tuesday, you should have first made sure everyone else on that ride knew and agreed that it was actually an A3 ride, not a B1.
I wouldn't normally spend half an hour writing down a wee diatribe like this. I understand that group riding is an imperfect social construct and that shit happens. It's just that while we've had a marvellous proliferation of strong, fast rides, and as our average speeds have picked up, I think we've also seen a bit of an erosion in what makes this club so special and successful—the promise that we're a true team, that we've got each other's backs and that no matter how fast, slow, or annoying you may be, you're welcome to ride with us and you will be both challenged and supported. This culture is what has attracted members aged 12 to 75, from all walks of life. (That and the coffee.) Let's take care of it.
On Tuesday I rode B1. To be clear, we were the third fastest group on the road, after A1 and A2. At Pareto, it was clearly announced that the first two rides (A1 and A2) were drop rides. So everyone riding B1 knew it was a regular old, communal, no-drop Tripleshot ride.
Our group of 15 headed up Caddy Bay at a good "warm-up" clip. I could see a few legs wobbling as we held 30 going up the hill before the Uplands. We hit the loop and things picked up even more. On lap 2, our first sprint lap, I set a new PR, averaging over 40 km/h over the entire loop (remember, this was B1!) As we mashed it, doing over 40 for the entire pre-sprint stretch of Henderson, I noticed a good chunk of riders were absolutely on the rivet. Once we turned onto Cedar Hill X and the sprint properly opened up, guys shot out the back and the group fell apart very quickly. Despite closing in on Lund at the finish, I couldn't quite catch him, and then Bosie came by to add insult to injury. It was a fun sprint.
As we sat up, I had a good look back before approaching the corner of Caddy Bay. This has been drilled into me over seven years of Tripleshot Tuesdays. If you're at the pointy end of that sprint, you look back to assess the group and figure out how soft to pedal through the corner to let everything come back together. What I saw was riders strung out over 800m—nearly the entire length of Cedar Hill X Rd. When I looked forwards again, the front clutch of riders had barely lessened their pace and kept things fast through the corner.
I picked up a few more stragglers and started to chase a bit. By the time I was coming up the hill before the golf course, I was struggling to make serious gains on the front group, despite working fairly hard. I figured they all had stiff necks and hadn't been able to look back to realize they were only a group of 6 or 7, instead of 15. So I bellowed Steady Up! a few times. Which didn't seem to have any impact. As we passed the Uplands clubhouse, they were still pushing hard. I looked back. Our rearguard was just starting to come up the hill—we were still spread out over half a kilometre. So, figuring the poor guys at the front were deaf too, I pinned it and burned up right behind them, pointing out this was a B ride, the group had exploded, and we needed to steady up.
Chris Fraser turned around, looked me in the eye, and said "No, let's just roll." Others in this group later said they figured that they'd soft-pedalled enough at that point and if people hadn't caught up, then it was because they'd chosen not to stay with the ride. Someone had said Roll, and Roll they did—despite nearly half the group being still off the back.
I gnashed my teeth a bit and decided to drop back to make sure the stragglers were sorted. We were on Lansdowne by then. As I sat up, Neil came past, looking like he had wild tigers chasing him, doing everything he could to catch this front group of "soft-pedalers". Y'know: Fozzy? The huge, strong, ex-SAS dude with a backpack who can regularly ride 40 into a headwind (and crushes Jeeps with his face!) but couldn't catch this front group. A few others came by, puffing and wheezing on their "rest lap". Eventually, I managed to collect a group of five and we finished off our laps without ever again catching a whiff of the group we started out with from Pareto.
I've ridden A2 a bunch of times. I know that on an A ride it is perfectly acceptable (and part of the fun!) to shell folks off the back. However, I also know that same competitive mentality can lead to the problems Martin highlights with his brilliant exam above.
However, Tuesday was not an A ride. It was damned fast, but it was also a no-drop ride. As Barton points out, the inclusive, no-drop group ride is the heart and soul of this club. It's the manifestation of Peter's golden rule, helpfully set out in all-caps above. This is the cooperative and mutually supportive spirit on which this club was built. And the riders with the greatest responsibility to carry this torch are those at the front of a ride.
If you're on the front, you should be looking back after a hill or a sprint. If you don't see the full group behind you, you should only Roll when you have some concrete assurance that anyone off the back has communicated their wish to be there. And if you rolled out of Pareto intending to do something different on Tuesday, you should have first made sure everyone else on that ride knew and agreed that it was actually an A3 ride, not a B1.
I wouldn't normally spend half an hour writing down a wee diatribe like this. I understand that group riding is an imperfect social construct and that shit happens. It's just that while we've had a marvellous proliferation of strong, fast rides, and as our average speeds have picked up, I think we've also seen a bit of an erosion in what makes this club so special and successful—the promise that we're a true team, that we've got each other's backs and that no matter how fast, slow, or annoying you may be, you're welcome to ride with us and you will be both challenged and supported. This culture is what has attracted members aged 12 to 75, from all walks of life. (That and the coffee.) Let's take care of it.
Re: Multiple choice exam
Yikes ...... what an interesting Tripleshot week it has been!
In reflecting on all of these observations and wise words, a few things struck me. First of all is the INTENT of these rides and as Barton, Craig, Martin and Rolf describe, Tripleshot is and should be a fun, inclusive group for people of all abilities and experience. That does not preclude blowing the weaker riders out the back if that is what you "sign up for" ( i.e. an "A" ride ). The emphasis on every ride should be a safe, vigorous workout finishing with smiles and coffee at the end. Rolf, your last paragraph should be required reading for all current and future Tripleshotters.
I'm sorry I missed the Tuesday B1 ride, it sounded ......... interesting.
In reading the account, I couldn't help but think that there may have been a few people in the wrong group if you know what I mean. I'm sure we have all found ourselves in a situation where we are either in-over-our-head, or not sufficiently challenged, BUT, if it's an advertised B or C ride, then it's NOT a drop ride under any circumstance.
It is worth remembering that the people who win sprints or find themselves near the front, invariably benefitted from both being in the bunch prior to the sprint, and drafting some sucker ( I mean lead-out ....... I often seem to be that guy ) just before the line. It hardly seems sporting to coast after a win and carry on because the group was too slow to catch back on within a minute. Check out the winner of a pro sprint. They don't hug their kids after the finish line, they embrace their lead-out grunts and buy them a beer! So if hammering at the front and winning the sprint seems effortless, there is another group just up the road that would be happy to have you join them. The other side of the coin is if you are truly suffering to even stay with the group, and typically watch the contenders for the sprint sail off in the distance, it might be worth considering a slightly slower group .... where you can win the sprint!
Lastly, I wanted to bring up the point that Craig made with reference to the competence of the A riders:
Your suggestion about having a few more neutral sections is excellent!
A shout out to any of those who are finding time to read the forum because they are off the bike; I count 6 people mending their bumps, bruises, cuts and road rash ...... and getting used to those new titanium parts ( or preparing for them! ).
Safe riding all.
Andrew
In reflecting on all of these observations and wise words, a few things struck me. First of all is the INTENT of these rides and as Barton, Craig, Martin and Rolf describe, Tripleshot is and should be a fun, inclusive group for people of all abilities and experience. That does not preclude blowing the weaker riders out the back if that is what you "sign up for" ( i.e. an "A" ride ). The emphasis on every ride should be a safe, vigorous workout finishing with smiles and coffee at the end. Rolf, your last paragraph should be required reading for all current and future Tripleshotters.
I'm sorry I missed the Tuesday B1 ride, it sounded ......... interesting.
In reading the account, I couldn't help but think that there may have been a few people in the wrong group if you know what I mean. I'm sure we have all found ourselves in a situation where we are either in-over-our-head, or not sufficiently challenged, BUT, if it's an advertised B or C ride, then it's NOT a drop ride under any circumstance. It is worth remembering that the people who win sprints or find themselves near the front, invariably benefitted from both being in the bunch prior to the sprint, and drafting some sucker ( I mean lead-out ....... I often seem to be that guy ) just before the line. It hardly seems sporting to coast after a win and carry on because the group was too slow to catch back on within a minute. Check out the winner of a pro sprint. They don't hug their kids after the finish line, they embrace their lead-out grunts and buy them a beer! So if hammering at the front and winning the sprint seems effortless, there is another group just up the road that would be happy to have you join them. The other side of the coin is if you are truly suffering to even stay with the group, and typically watch the contenders for the sprint sail off in the distance, it might be worth considering a slightly slower group .... where you can win the sprint!
Lastly, I wanted to bring up the point that Craig made with reference to the competence of the A riders:
I agree that the strongest A riders have remarkable handling skills and are amazingly smooth and predictable at high speeds, BUT, and correct me if I'm wrong, I think a stop sign is not a "crunch point" ..... it's a stop sign. I know we can safely roll past a lot of Victoria's stop signs at 6 am most days when traffic is light, and we slow sufficiently to make sure it is safe for the GROUP to proceed, but I think the issue we had on Friday's ride is exactly because some people at the front were "making a call" only for themselves and inexplicably carrying on at speed. As Rolf says, shit happens, but you don't drop people at a marked intersection. Maybe we could call the hills of Ash, Caddy Bay or KGT, and some of the nastier false flats, the "crunch points" where lesser riders can be shelled.Bosie wrote:The stronger riders, who often have better bike handling skills, get to these crunch points first, at speed, and are able to make a call that is not marginal for them in front of the oncoming traffic.
Your suggestion about having a few more neutral sections is excellent!A shout out to any of those who are finding time to read the forum because they are off the bike; I count 6 people mending their bumps, bruises, cuts and road rash ...... and getting used to those new titanium parts ( or preparing for them! ).
Safe riding all.
Andrew