Some pretty sketchy turns in front of oncoming vehicles this morning guys- just sayin....
Doesn't make us look good in the eyes of the public...
A ride this morning
Moderator: mfarnham
Re: A ride this morning
The only one I saw was on Mt.Doug X. I certainly hope culprits were called out a bit. If there's a chase it shouldn't be one that disregards common sense.
Good reminder Bosie.
Good reminder Bosie.
Re: A ride this morning
Definitely at least two times this morning that I saw. This is not to call anyone out - only a reminder to us all (including me) that the best ride and hopefully the goal of 100% of our club rides is that everyone arrives at the end safely. I know how testosterone (when I had some) and the need for speed can cloud our judgment in the moment.
I think the important thing that we all remember is that there is a great amount of trust in the first rider or two. If it's clear for them and they don't call out otherwise we trust that the way is clear entering any type of transition, like a corner. When you're in the lead and entering an area like that, there is almost total trust in what you say or don't say. What this great responsibility means is that, when in the lead (and lead can mean any position when you have riders behind you) in an encounter that may be clear for you may endanger the rest of the group. Sometimes hard to think of all astern of you, however necessary none the less.
A question to ask ourselves in any situation of potential danger is; "I can probably get by this _____ safely, can everyone behind me?".
Let's both rip it up and be safe.
Ritchie
I think the important thing that we all remember is that there is a great amount of trust in the first rider or two. If it's clear for them and they don't call out otherwise we trust that the way is clear entering any type of transition, like a corner. When you're in the lead and entering an area like that, there is almost total trust in what you say or don't say. What this great responsibility means is that, when in the lead (and lead can mean any position when you have riders behind you) in an encounter that may be clear for you may endanger the rest of the group. Sometimes hard to think of all astern of you, however necessary none the less.
A question to ask ourselves in any situation of potential danger is; "I can probably get by this _____ safely, can everyone behind me?".
Let's both rip it up and be safe.
Ritchie
Re: A ride this morning
I think it is totally unfair to split the group in front of cars and launch an attack. There were two incidences where the front guys aggressively turned in front of cars, although both times one could argue they were already off the front. In the first instance there was a KOM in play. I often see TSC rides when I am driving and am at times disappointed by the lack of consideration for motorists. We are not always as good as we think.
Re: A ride this morning
I just want to make sure I understand what is being implied in this thread. Both Andrew and I were wrong to turn in front of the pickup going into Mount Doug off of Cedar Hill?
Geoff
Geoff
Re: A ride this morning
Hi Guys,
I'm not pointing any fingers and I dont think thats helpful. (I think Richies post sums up some of the issues). I think the culture of rides dictates the culture of the group and how it rides and so I think we are all collectively responsible.
All I wanted to point out was that on at least 2 occasions during the ride, people turned in front of oncoming cars in a fashion that was pretty marginal -in my opinion (Im a noob and just happy to be riding and being dropped by you guys. If Im way off base, feel free to ignore me). It just seemed a bit sketchy at the time.. The second was the turn into Arbutus from Gordon Head. Cars had to slow down and there was some hooting and shaking of heads from drivers.
I dont think either instance was intentional, I just think that in the heat of a Friday ride, sometimes the 50:50 decision that has to be made on the fly tilts in the wrong direction. From my point of view, the two instances on the ride were not particularly unsafe (Cars could slow and those in front could get in front safely), it just didnt look good and doesnt do us any favors with the public.
I like the "race" feel of the A ride and so would hate for people to not be trying to make breaks and hurting everyone on the ride. Just maybe pick points that dont involve cars (Reminds me of the Tour last year where half the peloton got through in front of the TGV- perhaps we should neutralise the ride when cars are involved and its marginal)
I can envisage other cross over points (like the bottom of Mt Doug) where an ill timed cross in front of oncoming traffic might cause much bigger problems for those relying on the front guys to make the call.
Craig
I'm not pointing any fingers and I dont think thats helpful. (I think Richies post sums up some of the issues). I think the culture of rides dictates the culture of the group and how it rides and so I think we are all collectively responsible.
All I wanted to point out was that on at least 2 occasions during the ride, people turned in front of oncoming cars in a fashion that was pretty marginal -in my opinion (Im a noob and just happy to be riding and being dropped by you guys. If Im way off base, feel free to ignore me). It just seemed a bit sketchy at the time.. The second was the turn into Arbutus from Gordon Head. Cars had to slow down and there was some hooting and shaking of heads from drivers.
I dont think either instance was intentional, I just think that in the heat of a Friday ride, sometimes the 50:50 decision that has to be made on the fly tilts in the wrong direction. From my point of view, the two instances on the ride were not particularly unsafe (Cars could slow and those in front could get in front safely), it just didnt look good and doesnt do us any favors with the public.
I like the "race" feel of the A ride and so would hate for people to not be trying to make breaks and hurting everyone on the ride. Just maybe pick points that dont involve cars (Reminds me of the Tour last year where half the peloton got through in front of the TGV- perhaps we should neutralise the ride when cars are involved and its marginal)
I can envisage other cross over points (like the bottom of Mt Doug) where an ill timed cross in front of oncoming traffic might cause much bigger problems for those relying on the front guys to make the call.
Craig
Craig B.
Re: A ride this morning
I agree completely, Craig. When we are groupo compacto, I would never intentionally make a turn that those behind me wouldn't be able to make safely. With the gap that Andrew and I had, 20 meters plus, I don't think I should have to consider the chasing pack. Maybe I'm wrong?
Geoff
Geoff
Re: A ride this morning
Hi Geoff...you are correct...you are wrong.
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EasterBrown
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 12:53 pm
Re: A ride this morning
When the group is getting on the large side, inevitably there's going to be cases where what's safe for the lead riders/break is not safe for the other's. The Mount Doug X case was one that was unavoidable, Andrew and Geoff had committed to the corner before the car came into sight, I think the group handled this well as could be expected as every let the car pass.
The second instance was more worry some. There were multiple sizable gaps and multiple riders had called out the car and stopping. Yet multiple riders came through from behind and dove the corner, with at least one crossing into the on coming lane to ride the ditch. So the car with the right of way had come to a complete stop along with the lead riders of what was left of the group to make the turn, yet multiple riders kept diving through. This is unacceptable and dangerous. We have enough issues with law enforcement and local rides.
If you're in the position where you need to ride dangerously and disrespectfully to close a gap, you probably weren't going to make it.
The second instance was more worry some. There were multiple sizable gaps and multiple riders had called out the car and stopping. Yet multiple riders came through from behind and dove the corner, with at least one crossing into the on coming lane to ride the ditch. So the car with the right of way had come to a complete stop along with the lead riders of what was left of the group to make the turn, yet multiple riders kept diving through. This is unacceptable and dangerous. We have enough issues with law enforcement and local rides.
If you're in the position where you need to ride dangerously and disrespectfully to close a gap, you probably weren't going to make it.