Today's B2 crash

[Mark C]

Hi everyone just a quick update appart for some road rash and a sore lower back I am fine at home resting. Thanks to all of you for your help, this is quite the club as most rides we have our own medical team riding with us cheers Eric and Steve

Mark

[IanWhit]

Sorry to hear you hit the floor today. Speedy recovery!!

[Fozzy]

speedy recovery mate!!!

[Robgrant]

Glad you are OK. It was a horrible sound to hear.

[Paula]

Glad you are okay! Wow, I had a second row seat (or first row seat if you don't count Michael) and it was quite the crash! You bumped and skidded down the road pretty hard. I'm very glad (and surprised) that you see okay. Take it easy. Let yourself recover. You are over 40 now, aren't you?

Michael, how are you? You went for a bit of a tumble too. Anyone else?

[k kendal]

I was at the rear of the group as this crash happened. It was pretty surreal guys, and I think we almost had a classic Tour De France Sprint pileup. On this, the middle of the Arbutus road section is the last place I would have expected such a dust up. What Did I see, a rider went down, then another one slid down and the I think the rider, or one of these two, rode over a fallen one, and then promptly did a summersault while holding onto their bike, I think the remaining 10 or so of us behind where all then breaking and swerving left and right to avoid each other, I was sure I was going to come to a crash with the person in front of me!

A liked what I saw in all of us clearing the road up, and getting guys watching the rear of the road for any incoming traffic.

I hope the two affected riders only have their egos seriously bruised, we all know something like this could happen to any one of us.

I know my ego was seriously bruised at Port Alberni XC last fall with my broken collarbone in the warmup to the race!

[k kendal]

On a unrelated matter in todays ride, after the top of ash road climb, when we started to roll out, I lost partial control of my rear derailed such that I could only shift, and even then it was reluctant to do so, between the 3rd easiest and 7th sprocket, which is why I was tailing the group on arbutus road.

After the ride I took my bike in for a fix... Turns out I had one sole strand left on the rear derailer cable on my handlebar shifter left.

[Julie]

Glad you're okay. Hope to see you out again soon.

[waverider]

Can I ask what happened to cause the crash? Anything to be learned from the incident?

[Rolf]

Yes, despite it often being a delicate discussion, we can all gain from a crash if people involved can recount what they experienced or saw happen. Call it making lemonade out of spilt milk, or whatever metaphor you like. In the recounting of a spill there is always something to learn, or a reminder of good riding practice, that can help avoid future crashes.

Just try to keep comments neutral and objective and leave any needed finger-pointing to in-person communication—use anonymous generalities if necessary.

[David Hill]

Mark (and Mike), so glad you're all right. It was truly a terrible thing to hear.

I was just in front, so didn't see what happened. It was a strange place for such a crash, but I wonder if maybe we touched wheels? I didn't feel anything, but it seemed like that kind of crash.

I know in a group of that size (big, but not ridiculous), there can be an accordion effect, with riders at the front not sustaining the momentum of the riders in the pack and rear who are benefiting from the substantial draft of the group.

My suspicion is that after we came around the corner into the straightaway, the 3-4 of us in the front (all relatively smaller riders) were likely going slower than Mark and those in the back. I know I often pull out a bit from the draft, rather than hitting the brakes. I'm wondering if this is maybe what happened, causing some wheel rub or contact between riders?

If so, what is the best thing to do? My guess is that you want to hold your line, rather than moving side to side, but perhaps I'm wrong, depending on the situation? Again, I know that I tend to pull out rather than hit the brakes, which might be more dangerous than slowing.

I'm always up for critique (and luckily this group is generous in that regard).

Anyway, maybe Mark or others who could actually see what happened can fill in the blanks?

[roadflasj]

I've ridden in many different groups through the years and holding your line within a paceline/group is always the best positioning tactic unless you are at the very back and everyone is aware of what you're doing and why. Moving over during a fast decent may indicate an obstruction (expected to come quickly due to the speed involved) and could cause riders behind to veer out of the way. A good way to think about it is if everyone follows your lead then several riders would be out of the pace line and into the vehicle lane making the group wider and more difficult to drive around should there be a vehicle approaching at that time. Also consider the weaving, snake like effect of one rider near the front moving to either side and the reaction from the following riders attempting to follow wheels. This dangerous weaving motion will be exaggerated when the group effort or speed increases.

[JohnT]

As Lister has instructed in the past, if you are on the front going downhill, pedal as fast as you can .. always. Alternatively, avoid leading the group downhill. This can look like sand-bagging especially if you're like me and accidentally pull off the front on a climb later in the ride. But, the draft is amazing, and when people like me are in front going downhill, it's overwhelming. This is not meant to take blame away from people crashing into you/me from behind, but avoiding the lead on the way downhill is a strategy to consider for the less-robust TSers.

JT

[waverider]

Thanks for posting some of the additional details. As a new rider I'm not sure which I fear more, being in a crash or causing one (and I think it's the latter!). So reading threads like this and the other one, "Who's at fault" are quite informative. Thinking of my riding now I don't think I've been very careful about holding my line so these threads have heightened that importance to me. Thanks to all who shared.

[mfarnham]

If I'm getting too close to the wheel in front of me I sometimes slip a couple feet to the outside to catch a little draft and slow down, instead of touching the brakes, because I assume this is a smoother way to decelerate. Is that a bad call?

Martin

[mshepard]

Interesting points. From my years of riding the track where brakes were not an option, pulling out to the side was always the tactic used - it gets you away from the wheel in front without overtaking it, and it slows you down in a smooth and manageable fashion. With that in mind you NEVER overlap a wheel ever ever because you know at any moment someone might kick off to the side. If you never overlap the chances of a touch of wheels is minimized. I understand the point made about weaving out of the way but I can't see weaving into oncoming traffic in a two up situation. I think what sometimes gets missed in the equation is thinking about the rider BEHIND you as much as the rider in front of you. An example would be if the rider in front of you is half wheeling his/her partner you might concentrate on keeping even with your partner to provide continuity to the rest of the peloton behind rather than keeping six inches behind the wheel in front. If the rider in front of you weaves, hold your line, the rest of the peloton will appreciate that. While on the topic of touching wheels another situation that seems to occur is the kick backward when someone gets out of the saddle. Just be aware that if you are not concentrating on keeping a steady momentum your rear wheel will suddenly lurch back as you stand up creating a touch wheel situation.