Should there be 3 'B' rides?

[Quentin]

<Flame-proof chamois:on>

The B1 group is too big. Today it was 25+ riders.

This is a function of a few things:
1. not enough people are joining the B2 group
2. the B1 group rolls out at a proper size, but then picks up 5-10 riders on the way
3. the club is getting bigger
4. the club is getting fitter
5. There's always more riders (like me) when the weather is nice

Solution: create another B group! B0? B1+? A-? or?

It sounded today like the A group was rather large as well. Maybe some of the faster riders from B1 and slower riders from A want to form a new group with < 20 riders?

Questions:
1. Is 25+ riders too big for a group?
2. Is a new group between B1 and A the right solution?
3. Should the new group be a dropping ride like A to entice some of the slower A riders?
4. Without re-starting the old A vs B argument, what should the new group be called?
5. Can pickle juice really stop muscle cramps?

Discuss!

<Flame-proof chamois:off>

[BikeGuy]

My opinions:

1. No, but getting close. 30 is probably too many.
2. Make the current A ride back into the A+ ride and reinstate the old A ride.
3. Kinda, but it doesn't need to stop at the top of hills. No attacks on hills, attack on flat only. If you get dropped c'est la vie, but no riding to drop people.
4. Ralph
5. No.

[Rolf]

1. Yes. Once a ride gets beyond 24, someone should speak up and split it to 12+ each.
2. I don't know that a new group in these circumstances needs to be labelled "between B1 and A". The only real important thing is to decide in the parking lot whether it's no-drop, and then stick to that decision for the entire ride.
3. See number 2.
4. See number 2 (but definitely anything other than Ralph).
5. Absolutely. As can a fresh plate of charcuterie (consumed at the roadside for safety).

[Fozzy]

1. Not enough people are joining the B2 group - This is because alot of B2's are improving and going up to B1.
The club is getting fitter - Yes. Which means that the established (fitter) B1's should be going up to A.

Just sayin'

Neil

[Quentin]

Yes. Which means that the established (fitter) B1's should be going up to A.

I tend to agree except that it was mentioned today that the A group was rather large.

Any A's want to comment?

[Rolf]

Before this gets off topic:

[trevor]

I'd like to see more riders join the As. The larger the A group the more wheels you have to hide. We're a friendly bunch. I swear.

[steve]

My two cents worth:

The B1 ride was great today! Good pace at about 37kmh from ash on. Nobody got dropped and the group was good at being steady. I counted midway and the group had 19 (24 is a good cut off) at the marina. The laps at beacon were quick and efficient with a rolling pace line. The reason we have so many riders is that the club rides are well organized, friendly and fun. 60 plus people in a parking lot at 6am? We have to be doing something right! If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

This stated, as a skinny guy with no power on the flats I'm theoretically in favor of rolling on through hills but I don't think this is part of the TSC spirit that makes this club great. I'd also note that the transition from A to B is still a huge jump and might not be as easy as you think for most riders - the A ride is really a cat 1,2,3 kind of level.

Steve

[rhughes]

The Friday ride is a "threshold" ride is it not?

No matter--my opinion is a lot more riders should step up to the next level--whatever it is.

I am probably a reinging expert on being spit out by the As - I think the only street I haven't been dropped on is Richmond. Why do I keep going back? Three reasons:

1. It's fun! (in a hurting kind of way)
2. You learn to be a better rider (and isn't that the point?) and
3. You feel great! The further you make it each time you feel better at the end of the ride.
4. (bonus reason) The As (of which I am not) really are a great bunch of guys and they will support you any way they can.

More people should come out with the As--and if they really think there are too many in the group; they will just ride away. And guess what? If you keep up, you really are an A rider--and isn't that the coolest?

So next Friday--see you stepping up?

Ritchie

[katew]

I want to step away from the drop-no-drop conversation and the labelling game.

I going to be dull, and a Mom.

24 is an absolute max for a group. You want more than one pull in 12, anyway, don't you? More seriously: if the group is longer than a tractor-trailer, it is too long to work comfortably on the roads with other vehicles.

Look, it isn't hard. Even at 6:00 AM, you don't need to act like a lemming. When the departing numbers are hitting 16-20, STOP. Be the brave guy or gal. Lead. Stop long enough for that departing group to have gotten to the lights at Bay Street, if at all possible. Then make a NEW awesome group that will build memories for the next week's stories. Some can even be true. There is no limit to the number of groups. Just a request that we self-seed with faster groups going first; keep the groups under 24; and run a C whenever someone wants it.

[leftcoaster]

I enjoyed the B1 ride yesterday. I found it fast but relatively smooth in spite of the 20 riders. There were no calls for 'steady' with the only pauses being on the hill tops, and then only for a few seconds. While 20 seems like a large number,

1. 25+ is too much, but yesterday's 20 was fine;
2. As summer holidays, then the fall kick in, B1 will go back to around 15 in size;
3. With good ride seeding, as there was yesterday, making it a 'drop' ride probably wouldn't have changed anything;
4. I don't think Ralph (not Rolf ) is such a bad name;
5. In your dreams (nightmares)....

35.5km/h from Bay street on.........
http://connect.garmin.com/page/activity ... id=4311012

[spearson]

1. Is 25+ riders too big for a group?

YES!!! Unsafe and frankly a crap workout.

2. Is a new group between B1 and A the right solution?

YES!!!

3. Should the new group be a dropping ride like A to entice some of the slower A riders?

I think that, philosophically, 2 stepping stone groups would be great. One for C to B transitions and one from B to A transitions.

4. Without re-starting the old A vs B argument, what should the new group be called?

I could care less. Suggestions:
A+++++, A++++, A+++, A++, A+
Sirracha, chipotle, paprika, oregano, basil
Espresso, Macchiato, Cappuccino, Latte, Mocha
Di2, Dura Ace, 105, Tiagra, Sora (anyone showing up with Di2s MUST ride Di2)
Great White, Hammerhead, Tiger, Mako, Guppy
800, 510, 500, 310XT, 305
Sky, OPQS, BMC, FdJ, AG2R
Michelangelo, Raphael, Donatello, Leonardo, Shredder

...and yes I know AG2R just won the stage, it doesn't change the fact that their kit is an abomination.

5. Can pickle juice really stop muscle cramps?

Not riding a bike is the best way to stop muscle cramps.

[Roland]

I've only been back out for a bit, but here are my opinions. I think 24 in a group is about the limit.

The biggest issue I've seen is the number of riders on the circle at one time, when 3 groups smush into 1 it gets kinda chaotic. The As can be going slower than the Bs at this time, they tend to sit up a bit before their sprint, and the Bs ramp it up and smash into the back of them.

Maybe alternate what groups get the circle. A/B2 get it Tuesday, B1 and C get it Friday. The other group goes back to the old school Ontario St sprint. Or maybe add a little extra distance elsewhere.

[norman marcy]

Good conversation all
from a distance at the back the best post on they was Simon

I am spitting up coffee with laughter at the possible names

Stormin

[John D]

Upon seeing Quentin's post my first thought was "Ah, it must be July again". It seems that this issue comes up each summer, in one form or another. This is the time of year when we see both the highest rider turnout and the highest level of rider fitness (except me). That this is an issue is testament to Tripleshot's reputation for all-inclusiveness. For the record, we currently have 150+ paid members. Yay, us!

So, while I'm not opposed to some sort of re-jigging of our current group structure, this is likely a transitory problem that will naturally correct itself come the end of August.

In the meantime, I propose that we decide the number of B-groups at the start of each ride (i.e. based on rider turnout). If we need three B-groups on a given day - that's fine. If the first B-group decides to be a "drop ride", then let's try that too so long as everyone is clear on the plan at the start of the ride. Beyond that, I would ask only that people (i) self-seed accordingly, and (ii) count! If there are 30+ B-riders in the parking lot, why is it that 20+ always roll out with B1?

Last point - please rememeber that OUR group ride is not YOUR training ride. So if YOU aren't happy with the workout that you're getting don't keep pushing the pace in OUR group - put on your big boy/girl bibs and move up to the next group and get the ass-kicking that you're looking for.

Can I get an "Amen"?

[Rolf]

http://youtu.be/5r9V5WV_Fbk?t=4m

[leftcoaster]

now that's funny

[Fozzy]

Quality!!!

[Lister Farrar]

The Friday ride is a "threshold" ride is it not?

No matter--my opinion is a lot more riders should step up to the next level--whatever it is.

I am probably a reinging expert on being spit out by the As - I think the only street I haven't been dropped on is Richmond. Why do I keep going back? Three reasons:

1. It's fun! (in a hurting kind of way)
2. You learn to be a better rider (and isn't that the point?) and
3. You feel great! The further you make it each time you feel better at the end of the ride.
4. (bonus reason) The As (of which I am not) really are a great bunch of guys and they will support you any way they can.

More people should come out with the As--and if they really think there are too many in the group; they will just ride away. And guess what? If you keep up, you really are an A rider--and isn't that the coolest?

So next Friday--see you stepping up?

Ritchie

Like

[Lister Farrar]

<Flame-proof chamois:on>

The B1 group is too big. Today it was 25+ riders.

This is a function of a few things:
1. not enough people are joining the B2 group
2. the B1 group rolls out at a proper size, but then picks up 5-10 riders on the way
3. the club is getting bigger
4. the club is getting fitter
5. There's always more riders (like me) when the weather is nice

Solution: create another B group! B0? B1+? A-? or?

It sounded today like the A group was rather large as well. Maybe some of the faster riders from B1 and slower riders from A want to form a new group with < 20 riders?

Questions:
1. Is 25+ riders too big for a group?
2. Is a new group between B1 and A the right solution?
3. Should the new group be a dropping ride like A to entice some of the slower A riders?
4. Without re-starting the old A vs B argument, what should the new group be called?
5. Can pickle juice really stop muscle cramps?

Discuss!

<Flame-proof chamois:off>

like also

Good suggestions Quentin. I like the idea of a second group between a and b1, but also like Ritchie's challenge to ride up and test yourself. And accepting where you get dropped as a milestone.

One small problem with choosing groups is knowing who is in which group each day. Ottawa bicycle club used to have their five groups (Extra Sportif, Sportif, ...Easy Rollers) meet in separate corners of the meeting parking lot. You could then make your choice based on the attendees that day. (And so then we can all scurry to B1 when Jay shows up for A. ) That would also help solve the group size problem; you could see if it was over 24 before rolling out.

Think the Pareto folks would let us paint Simon's pro jersey design graphics on their parking lot pillars?