First up I want to say thanks to those A riders that were able to make it to coffee. I know it’s hard to always make it but when you can (and do) I think everyone enjoys it. So thanks. This club is primarily a social club so it is important we take the time (when we can) to be social. Basically I’d like to know more about each of you than the shape of your arse!
Second I wanted to get a discussion going based on a couple of comments I heard lately on the A ride.
Comment 1 – Made after cresting the hill by the golf course last Friday./ Rider looks around sees the big group still together and says: “How disappointing, everyone made it”. To me this underlines a terrible attitude and a complete lack of understanding of the purpose of a GROUP ride. Why on earth is it disappointing that I managed to haul my sorry ass up over a hill? I would much rather have that rider swing off, look around and think (or even say): “Nice work sticking with the group”. To me the point of a group ride has nothing to do with shredding guys off the back. It is going to happen and that is totally fine. Frankly if I can’t keep up so be it. However this comments is an indication (to me anyway) of a wilful, deliberate objective of some riders being to get me to pop off the back. This is not cool.
Comment 2 – made at Beacon Hill with some riders starting a paceline to chase an attack (good!) and me sitting on the back as it got going. Rider says “We're not going to just let you sit on”. Why the heck not? Why should anyone care if people sit in for some, or even all of a ride? Me sitting in has absolutely no impact on your ride. I think one of the awesome parts of cycling s that in any given ride a single rider can go from being strong, to weak, to strong again. If I am smart about how I ride I pull when I’m strong and sit in when I’m weak That way I stick to the group. The idea of not “letting” me sit in is from racing – and the TS rides are NOT races. In a race you totally want to shed anyone who won’t work. In a TS group ride why would it matter?
My general feeling about the A ride is that it too frequently degenerates into some sort of unofficial race where guys are trying not just to “win” (which is fine actually – If your goal is to win that’s cool) but to shred the pack - which is not at all cool. As soon as I see you as trying to drop me I no longer want to work with you. In fact because I know you are going to attack on a hill to try to drop me I have no choice but to ride defensively. And as soon as that starts to happen we get into a negative cycle. If I believed you weren’t attacking ME then I would probably want to work with you but because all I see are attempts to shed me it means the only way I survive is if I do whatever I need to do to survive as I am the only one looking out for me. And to be honest that’s not what any TS ride is about.
So I’d like to hear from others. Maybe I’m out of line here (I don't think so but I am open to having my mind changed).
Peter
Thinking about A rides
Moderator: mfarnham
Re: Thinking about A rides
Awesome post Peter. We 'A wannabees' bow to your wisdom and general congeniality, even though it would feel much better if I could drop you instead of the other way round. It's pretty clear observing the "A" ride from a distance, that it's become Victoria's unofficial Friday morning road race where other clubs show up and see what kind of damage they can inflict on each other. That kind of duelling can be a lot of fun but Peter reminding us that this is about group riding is a pearl worth heeding and helps reinforce the ethos of the Tripleshot club. One thing about riding in the A group is a lack of courtesy that typically gets shown to your fellow riders (such as yelling "Raccoon Up" which may prevent collisions with Pfizer-sponsored raccoons, for example). This is not because the A-dudes are discourteous, but that courtesy, helpfulness, pointing out dangers and potholes are among the many things that get dropped by the wayside as you're hanging on for dear life and trying to keep your lungs functioning well enough to force the pedals around. It's good to have a ride where there's precious left for chit chat. I hope the A rides continue, and were I able to keep up, I hope to ride them again someday, wildlife notwithstanding... 
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barton bourassa
- Posts: 1141
- Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:16 am
Re: Thinking about A rides
Peter, I don't know how you do it but again and again and again your comments and attitude continue to embody what TS is all about. First and foremost, our rides are group rides from the As to Cs. They are not races nor are they my own personal work out. I can go off on my own and do that. I can also go with the group, ride as a group, and get a great work out. Thanks for your comments and continuing to remind us about what makes us very special and unique. We have over 110 paid up members because of our emphasis on the group. We will not loose that.
Barton.
Barton.
Barton Bourassa
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Lister Farrar
- Posts: 3093
- Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:19 pm
Re: Thinking about A rides
+1Plawless wrote:First up I want to say thanks to those A riders that were able to make it to coffee. I know it’s hard to always make it but when you can (and do) I think everyone enjoys it. So thanks. This club is primarily a social club so it is important we take the time (when we can) to be social. Basically I’d like to know more about each of you than the shape of your arse!
Second I wanted to get a discussion going based on a couple of comments I heard lately on the A ride.
Comment 1 – Made after cresting the hill by the golf course last Friday./ Rider looks around sees the big group still together and says: “How disappointing, everyone made it”. To me this underlines a terrible attitude and a complete lack of understanding of the purpose of a GROUP ride. Why on earth is it disappointing that I managed to haul my sorry ass up over a hill? I would much rather have that rider swing off, look around and think (or even say): “Nice work sticking with the group”. To me the point of a group ride has nothing to do with shredding guys off the back. It is going to happen and that is totally fine. Frankly if I can’t keep up so be it. However this comments is an indication (to me anyway) of a wilful, deliberate objective of some riders being to get me to pop off the back. This is not cool.
Comment 2 – made at Beacon Hill with some riders starting a paceline to chase an attack (good!) and me sitting on the back as it got going. Rider says “We're not going to just let you sit on”. Why the heck not? Why should anyone care if people sit in for some, or even all of a ride? Me sitting in has absolutely no impact on your ride. I think one of the awesome parts of cycling s that in any given ride a single rider can go from being strong, to weak, to strong again. If I am smart about how I ride I pull when I’m strong and sit in when I’m weak That way I stick to the group. The idea of not “letting” me sit in is from racing – and the TS rides are NOT races. In a race you totally want to shed anyone who won’t work. In a TS group ride why would it matter?
My general feeling about the A ride is that it too frequently degenerates into some sort of unofficial race where guys are trying not just to “win” (which is fine actually – If your goal is to win that’s cool) but to shred the pack - which is not at all cool. As soon as I see you as trying to drop me I no longer want to work with you. In fact because I know you are going to attack on a hill to try to drop me I have no choice but to ride defensively. And as soon as that starts to happen we get into a negative cycle. If I believed you weren’t attacking ME then I would probably want to work with you but because all I see are attempts to shed me it means the only way I survive is if I do whatever I need to do to survive as I am the only one looking out for me. And to be honest that’s not what any TS ride is about.
So I’d like to hear from others. Maybe I’m out of line here (I don't think so but I am open to having my mind changed).
Peter
Lister
"We're jammin', jammin',
And I hope you like jammin', too."
(Bob Marley)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QdwYY9rZL4
"We're jammin', jammin',
And I hope you like jammin', too."
(Bob Marley)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QdwYY9rZL4
Re: Thinking about A rides
When I moved to Victoria and joined Tripleshot, the A rides were great fun. They were fast and they were unforgiving, but when I fell off the back (as I often did), it was only because I was weak that morning and the group, as always, was strong. Fast-forward a couple years. After a fairly long hiatus from A and some awesome riding in the B ranks, I jumped back into A for a few rides this spring. And sad to say, it ain’t much fun any more. As Pete notes, it’s cutthroat, seemingly more intent on punishing the weak than working as a group to encourage and develop strength. And now, even on those mornings when my back is feeling great and I’m up for an A ride of old, I usually choose to hang back with a B pack, where the spirit of Tripleshot really shines.
Re: Thinking about A rides
Thanks for posting Peter.
The above comments are disappointing. I don't mind seeing guys sit on the back and pull through when/if they can. Been there, done that. But communication is key. Let the guys and gals know they are next up in the paceline. Also, if you're in the paceline you have committed to getting yourself up to the front to pull through. Ducking in to a gap forces someone else to cover that gap and worse, it leads to a disorganized group and puts the front riders in a world of hurt where they have to work at the front longer than they expected or needed to.
I like surges and bridging gaps. It's more race-like and allows for more tactics. Typically this only really happens after KGT. The pace stays ramped up over all of the hills and this tends to be the area where riders are dropped. Most often it's not intentional. It just happens. If riders are getting dropped and taking short cuts and letting gaps go maybe they need to reconsider their group?
That all being covered it needs to be said that this ride is awesome. I've made some great friends on the various TS rides, been in the pain cave more times than I care to remember, and rarely (if ever) left with a sour taste in my mouth. We gotta be doing something right!
Trevor
Note: I began this post and left the window open for a bit. It got published after Alan, Barton, Lister, and Steve's comments, all of which resonate with me. I haven't noticed the A ride be any more cutthroat than it was 3 years ago. The only difference is I think the riders are stronger. Possible?
The above comments are disappointing. I don't mind seeing guys sit on the back and pull through when/if they can. Been there, done that. But communication is key. Let the guys and gals know they are next up in the paceline. Also, if you're in the paceline you have committed to getting yourself up to the front to pull through. Ducking in to a gap forces someone else to cover that gap and worse, it leads to a disorganized group and puts the front riders in a world of hurt where they have to work at the front longer than they expected or needed to.
I like surges and bridging gaps. It's more race-like and allows for more tactics. Typically this only really happens after KGT. The pace stays ramped up over all of the hills and this tends to be the area where riders are dropped. Most often it's not intentional. It just happens. If riders are getting dropped and taking short cuts and letting gaps go maybe they need to reconsider their group?
That all being covered it needs to be said that this ride is awesome. I've made some great friends on the various TS rides, been in the pain cave more times than I care to remember, and rarely (if ever) left with a sour taste in my mouth. We gotta be doing something right!
Trevor
Note: I began this post and left the window open for a bit. It got published after Alan, Barton, Lister, and Steve's comments, all of which resonate with me. I haven't noticed the A ride be any more cutthroat than it was 3 years ago. The only difference is I think the riders are stronger. Possible?
Re: Thinking about A rides
That and there are next to no TS members in it.trevor wrote:I haven't noticed the A ride be any more cutthroat than it was 3 years ago. The only difference is I think the riders are stronger. Possible?
#38
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Lister Farrar
- Posts: 3093
- Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:19 pm
Re: Thinking about A rides
I should add to my +1 comment that Im guessing this is not the intent of anyone in particular, just a reflex of a guy or two who race. As with many things in Tripleshot, these minor digressions in the greater scheme of riding bikes, just call for us to chat about it and reconfirm our preferences. I suspect most, if not all the A's feel the same way, if Josh's hammerfest ride descriptions, and the ProCity guys building their team tactics in vcl races, are anything to go by. And if someone made a mistake and channeled the burnside goonfest in a 90s flashback, that's forgiveable.
Lister
"We're jammin', jammin',
And I hope you like jammin', too."
(Bob Marley)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QdwYY9rZL4
"We're jammin', jammin',
And I hope you like jammin', too."
(Bob Marley)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QdwYY9rZL4
Re: Thinking about A rides
That's not the case at all Geoff.wonger wrote:That and there are next to no TS members in it.
Each week the A ride is different. Last Friday we had a good 20+ riders out at least half of which are TS members in good standing. It was the fastest A ride to date, no one got shelled, no one felt wronged.
This morning's ride had a good mix. In fact almost all of the 10 riders are TS members in good standing. Let's not forget that many of the guys who aren't decked out in TS kits are still TS members.
It's worth noting that today's group was considerably smaller. This often means that it'll be a tougher ride for those guys who are on the cusp of a B+ and A ride. There's less room to hide, more reps at the front, and less rest time overall.
Like many of you I take pride in looking out for the riders around me. Whether it's encouraging guys over hills or looking at a gap behind me and soft pedaling to help the fallen group get back on, it doesn't matter what club's kit you wear, being a good guy is of primary importance. I think this brings us back to Peter's main point: be a considerate rider to all in the group.
Re: Thinking about A rides
I think it's worth pointing out that the A ride is used to this kind of flack. Can you imagine if we had just as many posts like "C riders - get out of the way", or "B rides - why can't they be faster up hills?".
My point is that without the A riders to complain about, criticize, and publicly shame, TS would be losing an important part of it's identity. No other group takes the abuse that the A riders do on our friendly club rides.
Just so some people thinking of coming on an A ride aren't completely terrified by the above descriptions, I'd like to say it's not the group of belligerent jerks it's made out to be. It's just a group of cycling enthusiasts, riding the same prescribed route as everyone else in the club basically as fast as they can. Because the speed is relatively high, gaps happen, people suffer, others are dropped and sometimes stronger riders try to ride off the front while others doggedly chase them down or bridge up. Sounds fun right? Well if you don't think so, that's fine. But others do think it is. The ONLY difference between an A and B ride in Beacon Hill park is a few km/hr. The jockeying, the drops, and attacks are there as much in any B ride.
Another thing A riders aren't doing, is diabolically plotting other riders demise like some people seem to think. Nothing sinister is happening, there's no plans to destroy anyone. In fact, after every A ride when we stop at the corner of Beacon Hill and Dallas, there's nothing but compliments, encouragements, and pats on the back for everyone. "Good riding so-and-so!" or "Nice attack, you nearly killed me." Lots of smiles and good humour.
So I encourage anyone, come out and give it a try! You might enjoy the higher pace, and the more competitive feel, and if you don't then no harm done. I've been doing the A rides for the last year and a half, and I've been dropped literally on every section possible. But it's still a blast participating in the world championships of friday mornings! Oh yeah, and make sure you pay your club membership...
My point is that without the A riders to complain about, criticize, and publicly shame, TS would be losing an important part of it's identity. No other group takes the abuse that the A riders do on our friendly club rides.
Just so some people thinking of coming on an A ride aren't completely terrified by the above descriptions, I'd like to say it's not the group of belligerent jerks it's made out to be. It's just a group of cycling enthusiasts, riding the same prescribed route as everyone else in the club basically as fast as they can. Because the speed is relatively high, gaps happen, people suffer, others are dropped and sometimes stronger riders try to ride off the front while others doggedly chase them down or bridge up. Sounds fun right? Well if you don't think so, that's fine. But others do think it is. The ONLY difference between an A and B ride in Beacon Hill park is a few km/hr. The jockeying, the drops, and attacks are there as much in any B ride.
Another thing A riders aren't doing, is diabolically plotting other riders demise like some people seem to think. Nothing sinister is happening, there's no plans to destroy anyone. In fact, after every A ride when we stop at the corner of Beacon Hill and Dallas, there's nothing but compliments, encouragements, and pats on the back for everyone. "Good riding so-and-so!" or "Nice attack, you nearly killed me." Lots of smiles and good humour.
So I encourage anyone, come out and give it a try! You might enjoy the higher pace, and the more competitive feel, and if you don't then no harm done. I've been doing the A rides for the last year and a half, and I've been dropped literally on every section possible. But it's still a blast participating in the world championships of friday mornings! Oh yeah, and make sure you pay your club membership...
Re: Thinking about A rides
I am about to piss some people off but at least we can entertain ourselves.
As a TS member in good standing. Peter I believe you are out of line. I could be wrong but don't think I am. More likely your good intentions are misguided. I am not trying to be inflammatory but I feel I need to be clear on how I feel. It seems you have personalized the group ride to yourself. I to will now do the same. My passion on the subject comes from the feeling of being threatened that the glorious A ride will change.
I am pretty sure I have done the A ride the most of anyone over the last 5 years. I don't just read about it and cast my opinion on something I didn't see, do or participate in. (building authority , insulting previous commentaries. sorry)
Maybe I am the problem. However, I enjoy the Friday ride more than racing. Here is my perspective of you comments;
I would have dearly loved to get to coffee this morning however, it is my daughter's 8th birthday today (luckily I got home before she woke up - 7:30am) I had to get breakfast for 3 kids, make and pack lunches and get them all to school by myself and get myself to across town to work in just over an hour. This is a routine I am getting good at.
As for the comments;
Comment 1. Last Friday was a the largest Friday pack with many strong riders in it. There was a rolling debate to split it up from the beginning because it was too large to be safe. Attrition is sometimes the best way to thin the group for similar speed riders so gaps don't form etc. No individual as far as I know, has ever been targeted to be dropped. (other than John Benskin over Ash because well I wanted to one day). If someone (like yourself today) starts late, is always at the back, takes short cuts, is unable to take pulls and complains others are attacking any time there is a hill, maybe the A ride is a poor choice for them. The peleton dictates the pace. I believe you are the only one that didn't do the whole ride. So if its for "The A group benefit" how does one person opinion who rode at the back and took short cuts and didn't pull get to cast judgement and threaten all A riders? Likely your quote was someone trying their hardest to get away (imagine eye bleeding) and seeing you setting on their wheel. You want an compliment from them? How about a thank you to them for the draft and pulling through? It is for the group right?
Comment 2 Specifically, this morning Peter you did some yelling about Andrew attacking in Beacon Hill and that Jay should not follow. Then you powered up the inside out of turn. People miss heard you and didn't know what you where doing. (again just this guys perspective) Then when the organized chase was on to catch Jamie you then decided to sit up at the back didn't tell anyone (me, who I care most about when I am suffering). Thus, I had again to take another large turn to close a gap you essentially created. I haven't ridden in a week am nursing an injury and have you making my ride harder (I am only whining because I got dropped). Of course you can sit in. But we hope that the people sitting in don't end up hurting the group during the ride or on the forum after the fact.
Random comments;
Splitting the group and winning the sprint are the same thing. Why would anyone shred the group for no reason? Just to seek you out and punish you? Seems very unlikely you would get dropped since you are sitting in. The ride is about the group, not any individual rider but each rider has a role.
"My general feeling about the A ride is that it too frequently degenerates into some sort of unofficial race". I feel the opposite. It frequently generates into a super fun ride with people challenging themselves and each other. Friday A ride is not a race, but it should be where people all free like they can try what they want, when they want if it is safe. People rarely 'attack', (like Mike said) the pace goes up but rarely does someone sit in and do nothing then sprint past everyone in a true attack until Beacon Hill Park.
This ride is a great place to learn, practice and have fun. Positive culture is where people are suffering and someone makes room in the line or pushes them up. I was physically pushed up and let in twice by riders (Thanks Trevor)
I always enjoy it when it is fast. I am certain others feel the same way. The smiles across faces at the end are always massive. I don't think the group has any issues other than when one or two riders can't hold the pace and feel they need to post in this forum to change the theme of the ride. For the last 5 years the Friday A ride has been a hard ride. I have been at the pointy end of it for the last 4. Today was officially the hardest effort I have ever put in for Friday. The 3rd high power numbers I have ever recorded. 296 watts weighted average over 1:10. I was dropped by 4 people. I am happy with that.
Seriously unless its me, from the TSC'er and ProCity racer the A ride is very healthy. That is why other clubs are joining our ride more and more. Maybe one day we can have an A team?
As a TS member in good standing. Peter I believe you are out of line. I could be wrong but don't think I am. More likely your good intentions are misguided. I am not trying to be inflammatory but I feel I need to be clear on how I feel. It seems you have personalized the group ride to yourself. I to will now do the same. My passion on the subject comes from the feeling of being threatened that the glorious A ride will change.
I am pretty sure I have done the A ride the most of anyone over the last 5 years. I don't just read about it and cast my opinion on something I didn't see, do or participate in. (building authority , insulting previous commentaries. sorry)
Maybe I am the problem. However, I enjoy the Friday ride more than racing. Here is my perspective of you comments;
I would have dearly loved to get to coffee this morning however, it is my daughter's 8th birthday today (luckily I got home before she woke up - 7:30am) I had to get breakfast for 3 kids, make and pack lunches and get them all to school by myself and get myself to across town to work in just over an hour. This is a routine I am getting good at.
As for the comments;
Comment 1. Last Friday was a the largest Friday pack with many strong riders in it. There was a rolling debate to split it up from the beginning because it was too large to be safe. Attrition is sometimes the best way to thin the group for similar speed riders so gaps don't form etc. No individual as far as I know, has ever been targeted to be dropped. (other than John Benskin over Ash because well I wanted to one day). If someone (like yourself today) starts late, is always at the back, takes short cuts, is unable to take pulls and complains others are attacking any time there is a hill, maybe the A ride is a poor choice for them. The peleton dictates the pace. I believe you are the only one that didn't do the whole ride. So if its for "The A group benefit" how does one person opinion who rode at the back and took short cuts and didn't pull get to cast judgement and threaten all A riders? Likely your quote was someone trying their hardest to get away (imagine eye bleeding) and seeing you setting on their wheel. You want an compliment from them? How about a thank you to them for the draft and pulling through? It is for the group right?
Comment 2 Specifically, this morning Peter you did some yelling about Andrew attacking in Beacon Hill and that Jay should not follow. Then you powered up the inside out of turn. People miss heard you and didn't know what you where doing. (again just this guys perspective) Then when the organized chase was on to catch Jamie you then decided to sit up at the back didn't tell anyone (me, who I care most about when I am suffering). Thus, I had again to take another large turn to close a gap you essentially created. I haven't ridden in a week am nursing an injury and have you making my ride harder (I am only whining because I got dropped). Of course you can sit in. But we hope that the people sitting in don't end up hurting the group during the ride or on the forum after the fact.
Random comments;
Splitting the group and winning the sprint are the same thing. Why would anyone shred the group for no reason? Just to seek you out and punish you? Seems very unlikely you would get dropped since you are sitting in. The ride is about the group, not any individual rider but each rider has a role.
"My general feeling about the A ride is that it too frequently degenerates into some sort of unofficial race". I feel the opposite. It frequently generates into a super fun ride with people challenging themselves and each other. Friday A ride is not a race, but it should be where people all free like they can try what they want, when they want if it is safe. People rarely 'attack', (like Mike said) the pace goes up but rarely does someone sit in and do nothing then sprint past everyone in a true attack until Beacon Hill Park.
This ride is a great place to learn, practice and have fun. Positive culture is where people are suffering and someone makes room in the line or pushes them up. I was physically pushed up and let in twice by riders (Thanks Trevor)
I always enjoy it when it is fast. I am certain others feel the same way. The smiles across faces at the end are always massive. I don't think the group has any issues other than when one or two riders can't hold the pace and feel they need to post in this forum to change the theme of the ride. For the last 5 years the Friday A ride has been a hard ride. I have been at the pointy end of it for the last 4. Today was officially the hardest effort I have ever put in for Friday. The 3rd high power numbers I have ever recorded. 296 watts weighted average over 1:10. I was dropped by 4 people. I am happy with that.
Seriously unless its me, from the TSC'er and ProCity racer the A ride is very healthy. That is why other clubs are joining our ride more and more. Maybe one day we can have an A team?
Re: Thinking about A rides
With health problems I've had the last several months, my day to day form will randomly vary between being on the very pointy end of the front of the ride to hanging on for dear life on the back, so I've been on both ends of the spectrum.
Here's my thoughts, not directed at anyone in particluar.
- This the best, most fun, most supportive, most positive group of people I ride with. There is nothing but encouragement, there is nothing cutthroat about it.
- It's never been a group ride. I've been riding A since it's inception. It was founded as a full drop ride. There's always another group coming along the road you can fall back to if you get dropped. I would call it a full gas Gentlemens ride. Waiting for dropped riders at the top of hills, etc happens regularly, as do pushes, or extra work on the front of the group to get riders who are sitting in back in contact with anyone who has broken away. The ride is no more cutthroat than it has ever been, if anything, the level of commraderie has increased.
- It's nothing like a race. It's a place where people can test themselves in all sorts of silly ways that you would never see in a race. There are attacks off the front, but what you rarely see is anyone trying a secondary bridge up to the lead group. Instead you see guys pulling huge sacrificial pulls on the front of the pack to bring riders who are sitting in back in contact with the leaders. One of the things that makes it so fun is the lack of tactics.
- you should never expect to be waited for, that's the spirit of this ride. It's a freight train.
- It is 100% about your workout. That's the reason everyone in that group is there. You can push yourself to dark places trying to hold a wheel that it is very difficult to do on your own. You show up to help yourself and others get as good a workout as possible.
- The A ride, and A riders have always received this type of flack from other members of the club, both in comments at coffee, and on the message board. The majority of the people who ride the A ride in other team kits came out of tripleshot. The fact that they all now race for other teams is a definite reflection of this attitude within the club.
- The comments from the outside looking in from those who never participate seem a bit out of line. The soul of this ride is the guys who ride it every morning. We all know how how friendly and supportive of a group it is, regardless of how it's perceived.
- The fact that the group is getting so large is a reflection of how fun the ride has evolved to be. People are hearing about it, and coming to check it out. Last week the TS ride was a bigger turnout than the VCL A race. Obviously there is something being done right.
-I think it would be a shame to try to change in any way what in my opinion is hands down the best ride in the city. If tripleshot as a club doesn't want to host it, perhaps this ride should become a Pro City Ride, or an OBB ride and move it's morning meeting place accordingly.
Here's my thoughts, not directed at anyone in particluar.
- This the best, most fun, most supportive, most positive group of people I ride with. There is nothing but encouragement, there is nothing cutthroat about it.
- It's never been a group ride. I've been riding A since it's inception. It was founded as a full drop ride. There's always another group coming along the road you can fall back to if you get dropped. I would call it a full gas Gentlemens ride. Waiting for dropped riders at the top of hills, etc happens regularly, as do pushes, or extra work on the front of the group to get riders who are sitting in back in contact with anyone who has broken away. The ride is no more cutthroat than it has ever been, if anything, the level of commraderie has increased.
- It's nothing like a race. It's a place where people can test themselves in all sorts of silly ways that you would never see in a race. There are attacks off the front, but what you rarely see is anyone trying a secondary bridge up to the lead group. Instead you see guys pulling huge sacrificial pulls on the front of the pack to bring riders who are sitting in back in contact with the leaders. One of the things that makes it so fun is the lack of tactics.
- you should never expect to be waited for, that's the spirit of this ride. It's a freight train.
- It is 100% about your workout. That's the reason everyone in that group is there. You can push yourself to dark places trying to hold a wheel that it is very difficult to do on your own. You show up to help yourself and others get as good a workout as possible.
- The A ride, and A riders have always received this type of flack from other members of the club, both in comments at coffee, and on the message board. The majority of the people who ride the A ride in other team kits came out of tripleshot. The fact that they all now race for other teams is a definite reflection of this attitude within the club.
- The comments from the outside looking in from those who never participate seem a bit out of line. The soul of this ride is the guys who ride it every morning. We all know how how friendly and supportive of a group it is, regardless of how it's perceived.
- The fact that the group is getting so large is a reflection of how fun the ride has evolved to be. People are hearing about it, and coming to check it out. Last week the TS ride was a bigger turnout than the VCL A race. Obviously there is something being done right.
-I think it would be a shame to try to change in any way what in my opinion is hands down the best ride in the city. If tripleshot as a club doesn't want to host it, perhaps this ride should become a Pro City Ride, or an OBB ride and move it's morning meeting place accordingly.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Re: Thinking about A rides
I may have it wrong Trevor but I was looking at the latest membership list (April 30th). I really don't care that much about membership. I would just like to see more people who ride with us come for coffee instead of just showing up for "the best ride in town" and leaving. Those of us who can't go fast enough to stick to the A ride are strangers to this group and it would be great if that wasn't the case.trevor wrote:That's not the case at all Geoff.
#38
Re: Thinking about A rides
I wish I could, but I'm also unable to go hang out at post ride coffee these days.
Cant get to work on time if I do.
Cant get to work on time if I do.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Re: Thinking about A rides
Better said than me Josh. Geoff when you say strangers to this this group, I assume you mean the B riders that make it to coffee? Is that the TSC exclusive group? Seems you are excluding a few people.
Re: Thinking about A rides
Wow. Lots said.
Somewhat of outsiders perspective (as I never even aspire to ride A)
A ride is a drop ride, and I guess those who ride it realize what they are in for.
Coffee - for those who have the time and ability and don't have other commitments, it would be great to join with other tripleshot folks that can meet for coffee.
Membership - those who ride on tripleshot rides, even if they
belong to another club need to join tripleshot for liability reasons.
As a club, we like having an A ride for all sorts of reasons, including that it gives some B riders something to aspire to. No reason for a divorce.
Lastly, it would be great to have an A rider on the next TS board of directors, I think. It
might help for communication, perspective and ease what some
seem to feel as a division between A riders and the other
TS riders.
Somewhat of outsiders perspective (as I never even aspire to ride A)
A ride is a drop ride, and I guess those who ride it realize what they are in for.
Coffee - for those who have the time and ability and don't have other commitments, it would be great to join with other tripleshot folks that can meet for coffee.
Membership - those who ride on tripleshot rides, even if they
belong to another club need to join tripleshot for liability reasons.
As a club, we like having an A ride for all sorts of reasons, including that it gives some B riders something to aspire to. No reason for a divorce.
Lastly, it would be great to have an A rider on the next TS board of directors, I think. It
might help for communication, perspective and ease what some
seem to feel as a division between A riders and the other
TS riders.
Last edited by Paula on Sat May 10, 2014 6:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Thinking about A rides
I agree with Paula. The TS - A ride must go on. Otherwise, I've shaved my legs for nothing.
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stevierooks
- Posts: 146
- Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:37 am
Re: Thinking about A rides
Did Paula just use the 'D' word!!?? 
Lol This is just some banter eh. Its all good in the hood. Maybe some small encouragements will happen here but lets not make the kids choose who they want to live with.
Rooks
Lol This is just some banter eh. Its all good in the hood. Maybe some small encouragements will happen here but lets not make the kids choose who they want to live with.Rooks
Re: Thinking about A rides
I would like to add my perspective to this hot topic. I started coming to TS rides at the end of last summer and rode with the B+ group. It was a very positive experience for me which is why this year I decided to become a member of TS.
This year I have been riding with the A's and depending on how I'm feeling on a particular day I have had full participation in the pace line, or I've sat at the back, or I've been dropped by the relentless speed produced by many great riders.
I have never felt unwelcome, or treated poorly, or that someone was deliberately trying to shake me, in any of these scenarios. The A group is a friendly bunch of strong riders that challenge my fitness at a level I could never achieve without them.
I constantly brag to my old friends in Vancouver about the A rides and how amazing they are. The surges, the attacks, the different team tactics I see all add to the experience and I wouldn't change a thing. The speed is not that much faster than the B+ group, but it is the dynamics that I've mentioned above that really add to the experience.
It seems to me that 95% of people who actually ride in the A group are pleased with it so I don't think there really is any problem to solve here.
I do however echo previous comments/posts that it would be nice if more of the group made it out to morning coffee afterwards to socialize however, with that said, if you can't make it, you can't make it.
This year I have been riding with the A's and depending on how I'm feeling on a particular day I have had full participation in the pace line, or I've sat at the back, or I've been dropped by the relentless speed produced by many great riders.
I have never felt unwelcome, or treated poorly, or that someone was deliberately trying to shake me, in any of these scenarios. The A group is a friendly bunch of strong riders that challenge my fitness at a level I could never achieve without them.
I constantly brag to my old friends in Vancouver about the A rides and how amazing they are. The surges, the attacks, the different team tactics I see all add to the experience and I wouldn't change a thing. The speed is not that much faster than the B+ group, but it is the dynamics that I've mentioned above that really add to the experience.
It seems to me that 95% of people who actually ride in the A group are pleased with it so I don't think there really is any problem to solve here.
I do however echo previous comments/posts that it would be nice if more of the group made it out to morning coffee afterwards to socialize however, with that said, if you can't make it, you can't make it.
Re: Thinking about A rides
Hey All,
Just wanted to add my two cents worth as a very occasional A ride sufferer and TSC member. Lets not get too worked up in this discussion - I love the fact that I get to ride every morning with a great bunch of guys and gals of all different abilities. It would be a horrible shame if the A ride went somewhere else.
First and foremost, I like seeing guys from the likes of Trevor, Kevin, Andrew and Josh to Mark Ford at our rides - even if it is just for a friendly nod. The fact that we are able to accommodate such a wide variety of fitness levels is a testament to the success and spirit of the club. In order to continue to satisfy the needs of these riders, I think the A ride needs to exist. It also gives some of the very talented young riders that join our club (Anika, Dylan and Jay for example) something special to help improve their abilities.
The A ride has been a drop ride for a long time and I think everyone who joins the ride does so knowing they are going at their own peril. The beauty of TSC is that if you do get dropped, a friendly, slightly slower group will be coming by in a couple of minutes and will encourage you to hop on! It is also great to see all the different clubs in Victoria represented on the rides, allowing us to meet new folks and encouraging the Victoria community spirit of cycling.
Any concern about the group being cut throat and trying to drop others should be tempered by my experience. I tried hanging on as long as possible a couple of weeks ago and hid at the back - no complaints about not doing my share of work and I got some words and nods of encouragement from a few riders.
This all stated, I do believe it is important that we heed some of Peter's words and always think about the group riding experience - too many other club rides over the years have degenerated into unwelcoming and unsafe drop rides that leave a bad taste in people's mouths.
Finally, from an insurance perspective it is important that people sign up with the club. I can't remember what the price is, but I know it is nominal. I worked it out one time and figured I was paying about 10 cents a ride to be with a great group, getting a fantastic workout in one of the most beautiful places in the world. At that price, I was happy if the executive spent the money on illicit drugs for themselves. Instead the money goes to things like helping young riders get involved with racing and supporting a fellow rider who has crashed. Becoming a club member is good mojo.
Looking forward to seeing you all out on the roads next week!
Steve
Just wanted to add my two cents worth as a very occasional A ride sufferer and TSC member. Lets not get too worked up in this discussion - I love the fact that I get to ride every morning with a great bunch of guys and gals of all different abilities. It would be a horrible shame if the A ride went somewhere else.
First and foremost, I like seeing guys from the likes of Trevor, Kevin, Andrew and Josh to Mark Ford at our rides - even if it is just for a friendly nod. The fact that we are able to accommodate such a wide variety of fitness levels is a testament to the success and spirit of the club. In order to continue to satisfy the needs of these riders, I think the A ride needs to exist. It also gives some of the very talented young riders that join our club (Anika, Dylan and Jay for example) something special to help improve their abilities.
The A ride has been a drop ride for a long time and I think everyone who joins the ride does so knowing they are going at their own peril. The beauty of TSC is that if you do get dropped, a friendly, slightly slower group will be coming by in a couple of minutes and will encourage you to hop on! It is also great to see all the different clubs in Victoria represented on the rides, allowing us to meet new folks and encouraging the Victoria community spirit of cycling.
Any concern about the group being cut throat and trying to drop others should be tempered by my experience. I tried hanging on as long as possible a couple of weeks ago and hid at the back - no complaints about not doing my share of work and I got some words and nods of encouragement from a few riders.
This all stated, I do believe it is important that we heed some of Peter's words and always think about the group riding experience - too many other club rides over the years have degenerated into unwelcoming and unsafe drop rides that leave a bad taste in people's mouths.
Finally, from an insurance perspective it is important that people sign up with the club. I can't remember what the price is, but I know it is nominal. I worked it out one time and figured I was paying about 10 cents a ride to be with a great group, getting a fantastic workout in one of the most beautiful places in the world. At that price, I was happy if the executive spent the money on illicit drugs for themselves. Instead the money goes to things like helping young riders get involved with racing and supporting a fellow rider who has crashed. Becoming a club member is good mojo.
Looking forward to seeing you all out on the roads next week!
Steve