Increased Police Enforcement coming

[Plawless]

I received the following "tip" from Oak Bay Police:

a member of the department noted he is going to start enforcing the MV Act on Tuesday and Wednesday mornings......just a heads up to club members that they are required to stop at all stop signs, stay right and not ride two abreast.

[EricS]

Thanks for these warnings Peter,

I did notice a police cruiser last Wed. going up and down Caddy Bay hill while we were doing hills.

I imagine the U-turn we do at the bottom of the hill breaks many laws. How best should this done if the fuzz are watching?

Eric

[EricS]

Worth reviewing:

http://www.bclaws.ca/EPLibraries/bclaws ... section183

[Paul C.]

Peter, good plan to move back to U VIC ring road.

Two Tuesdays ago, with the C ride at ring road a Saanich Police car came up to me and said, "do you think you people are exempt from the motor vehicle act" I didn't clearly hear him or understand what he meant, so I said "That guy up there is the group leader"{meaning Barton}
The Police officer went up and talked to one of our first time riders. thinking he was our leader, then drove off. I think this rider, like me, had no idea what the officer was talking about. After consulting with Barton we figured he was referring to us not stopping at the stop sign near the cut-off to Henderson.

So they are on to us. And i believe we do come under all the same MVA regulations.

[Roland]

I imagine the U-turn we do at the bottom of the hill breaks many laws. How best should this done if the fuzz are watching?

U-turn at bottom of hill should be fine. Just be aware of right of way issues - ie cars already in the intersection.

According to bc drivers guide:

U-turns
If you find you are going in the wrong direction, you may be
tempted to make a U-turn. U-turns are often risky. They are illegal:

� if they interfere with other traffic
� on a curve
� on or near the crest of a hill, where you cannot be seen by other traffic within 150 metres
� where a sign prohibits U-turns
� at an intersection where there is a traffic light
� in a business district, except at an intersection where there is no traffic light
� where a municipal by-law prohibits making a U-turn

[gab]

The most difficult one to get around would be riding two abreast. Any thoughts?

[cashman]

I received the following "tip" from Oak Bay Police:

a member of the department noted he is going to start enforcing the MV Act on Tuesday and Wednesday mornings......just a heads up to club members that they are required to stop at all stop signs, stay right and not ride two abreast.

My response to this is "those in glass houses should not throw stones" i.e. the Tour de Rock riders ride two abreast and there is no exemption for them, hmmmmm

Colin

[AlW]

Peter, good plan to move back to U VIC ring road.

I don't know if that is a better plan or not. Remember there is also a stop sign in ring road, as well as numerous crosswalks. Granted there is not a lot of pedestrian traffic at that hour, but now that the summer weather appears to be with us (finally!) it's likely we'll see more people out early.

I think the current Tuesday route is fine if we can keep the noise down. Distance wise, it's twice as long so less stops to get the same distance. The location at the stop sign at Caddy Bay is also a good spot to regroup after the sprint laps.

[Lister Farrar]

I'm guessing we've annoyed someone who has complained and now the police have to do something and are going by the letter of the law. (Never mind that it's kinda weird that people can park a car for hours on the same road that we can't ride side by side on for few seconds.)

But I can't help think there are things we could do that would reduce the risk of annoying the sensitive ones out there. For eg, ride tight to the right. We're pretty loose often and some suggest we ride out out there for safety. But I think it provokes drivers who see it as brazen behavior and an excuse to complain.

Another is yelling "car back" loudly. Many experienced groups don't do this because they ride tight to the right. I think we do becUse we are too wide. Plus in the early morning it sounds very loud, even though it's not as loud as a bus or truck. For some reason we are so deep in car culture human voices sound worse than engines to some people. But then about 5 people yell it. Do we really have to?

I think not yelling is key. We had a complaint a few years ago at Windsor in the early morning including a police visit. We werent yelling but we werent being quiet either. But since then when coaching there I've asked people to talk in low voices and there have been no complaints. And the organizer of the race there is hosting the axel Merckx youth race for me.

[gab]

I think Lister is probably got it right that we've annoyed someone specific.

I'm wondering if it's possible to simply sit down with the police who received the complaint and discuss the situation with them. It could help us decide whether ring road / usual route is better way to go, or whether the issue is more about noise or riding two/more abreast.

It may also give the officer the ability to follow up with the person(s) complaining to help smooth things over.

I mean, Victoria is the "cycle capital of Canada"--that's not the same as a law but it has to give us some leverage.

[Rolf]

I agree that consultation with law enforcement is the best way to go. The anecdote "do you guys think you're above the law?" is important; police like nothing less than flagrant and intentional lawbreaking. But if they're consulted regularly, they're more likely to come away with the sense that they've managed enforcement in a manner sensitive to a variety of citizens' needs and may be less likely to enforce the letter of the law, at least on principle alone. Effective law enforcement is nuanced by context; all good cops know that.

Now if only we had a couple of cops among us! (<cough> <cough> Colin? Ian?)

Also: I disagree, Lister -- I think we actually need to do more "car up!" "hole!" etc. Communication at speed (and unfortunately at volume) is one of the most important things we do for safety. I wouldn't discourage anyone from making some noise, if they are so moved.

[Lister Farrar]

I agree that consultation with law enforcement is the best way to go. The anecdote "do you guys think you're above the law?" is important; police like nothing less than flagrant and intentional lawbreaking. But if they're consulted regularly, they're more likely to come away with the sense that they've managed enforcement in a manner sensitive to a variety of citizens' needs and may be less likely to enforce the letter of the law, at least on principle alone. Effective law enforcement is nuanced by context; all good cops know that.

Now if only we had a couple of cops among us! (<cough> <cough> Colin? Ian?)

Also: I disagree, Lister -- I think we actually need to do more "car up!" "hole!" etc. Communication at speed (and unfortunately at volume) is one of the most important things we do for safety. I wouldn't discourage anyone from making some noise, if they are so moved.

Good point on consultation. Id Volunteer to join a delegation.

Pointing out road hazards is more effective. The following riders know where to go. Or rather where not to. A general "HOLE!" leads immediately to 'where?'

And we can still alert others to cars waiting to pass. And should. But in a volume enough for the
Next few who pass it on. Three guys all bellowing at the back at the same time is annoying even in the group. How about only the back rider? It's a good habit to look around behind you whether racing or training, and the back rider can do this without wobbling in front of anyone.