Car repairs - Crash on Dallas Road

David Hill · Post by **David Hill** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:08 pm

Guys, I have finally heard back from ICBC about the costs of the repairs to the Subaru Legacy that we banged up during our crash last summer.

I don't recall exactly everyone who was on the ride, (me, Peter, Galen, Rob, John T., Chris M., Chris F., ???)

We agreed that we'd all share the costs either of the repairs or the impacts on my auto insurance. I'm not sure what the costs of the insurance premiums will be, but here's the message from ICBC:

Mf n388327 6
Hi David,

I am currently helping out on other adjuster's files and see we have now paid for the damage to the parked vehicle.

The total amount paid is $1599.43.

If you wish to send a cheque, you can do so via the address below - ensuring you put the claim # on it so it gets directed to the right file.
We will allow you up to April 30/09 to pay the damage to us. After that time, we will have to forward the file to our Collections Department.
If you have any questions, don't hesitate to contact us.
Regards,
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Heather Farrell, AIIC CIP

Based on this, my guess is that if it goes against my insurance, the difference will be a lot less than paying the total. I'm okay with that, as long as it takes into consideration the premium adjustments over the coming couple of years.

Thoughts, comments?

David

Plawless · Post by **Plawless** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:47 am

sounds right to me David. What is the $ impact on your insurance?

Also I guess I am in as it seems pretty fair that we all share the benefit of riding together we ought to bear the costs (but you do realize I wasn't actually on that ride - I just wish I was!)

JohnT · Post by **JohnT** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:39 pm

Dave,

I was there and will contribute. It should be possible to calculate changes/costs (if any) to your insurance. Can you ask ICBC to do that? Then we can figure out what's best. You might suffer some consequences for using insurance this time if you have future claims (e.g., over some limit that I'm unaware of). That's something else to consider.

Let us know,

John

Lister Farrar · Post by **Lister Farrar** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:12 pm

I can't remember if I was there, but would like to contribute anyway. Coulda been any of us.

David Hill · Post by **David Hill** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:59 pm

Thanks for the offers guys. Well, the good news is that ... well, okay, now the bad news:
ICBC won't allow me to apply the crash to my auto insurance becuase -- get this -- my auto wasn't involved!
Can you believe that bureaucratic legalesey mumbo-jumbo!

So... the net effect is that it's a $1600 hit, that if we'd just kept our mouths shut, we wouldn't have to pay... Of course the car owner would have to pay her deductible..

Peter, what's the Insurance (Motor Vehicle) Act say about renegging on an offer to take responsibility for a crash?

Anyway, that's the lay of the land... so the more riders, the less burden. For now, they're wanting me to pay it or have them come after me....

How is it Lister and Peter managed to not be on that ride?? Is THAT why we crashed?

ART BOY · Post by **ART BOY** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:09 am

i'm in

- I do remember hitting the pavement that day. What size painting are you expecting?

Alan · Post by **Alan** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:30 pm

Will you take a "painting" from me too? I was there on that ride but was not, repeat, was not involved in any way, shape or form. I'll kick in some to help take the sting out of the insurance bill.

David Hill · Post by **David Hill** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:02 pm

Okay guys, so far I have a list that looks like this:

Me (squished into Subaru)
Rob Mickelberry (crashed)
Galen Davison (crashed)
Chris Fraser (smashed me good)
Chris Marshall (back tire attacker, yet unscathed)
John Taylor (unscathed)
Alan Cassels (unscathed)

At this rate, it's going to cost each person about $230.

Anyone else remember being there? Seems like an AWFULLY small group!

I appreciate the offers from Lister & Pete to contribute... not necessary, but always appreciated if it might work. If everyone in the group put in, it would cut the costs significantly per person, but could be seen as an unfair request to those who didn't agree to cover the costs at the time.

Anyone have Chris Marshall's email address?

Thanks,

JohnT · Post by **JohnT** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:18 pm

It's a difficult subject, but let's have a bit of a discussion.

I was there and will pay my share. That was agreed (perhaps not by everyone, or perhaps not everyone was still there when we talked about it) on the day when we had to decide whether to knock on the door. Damn, if you were there you know we had to knock for a long time to wake them up.

If it happens again, what's the plan? Does the new club insurance cover this? If not, is it up to those who were there (good for 20-rider mornings, bad for 4-rider mornings), or for those present one on of the last three rides? That is, regulars contribute, occassional members don't.

Might not happen again, so I don't want to generate a contentious debate over a rare event, but it would be good to chat a little.

Perhaps we're best to leave it to ICBC (i.e., skip the part where we wake up the car owner).

I haven't given Allan any $$ for the Barton kit fund and am feeling guilty about that (a confession felt like a good way to get the discuusion started).

JT

David Hill · Post by **David Hill** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:49 pm

Thanks, John.

I certainly am willing to be part of the group in all future events, although I think group insurance is supposed to cover it. (Maybe if you take advantage of the perks of wearing the gear, it should be implicit that you're part of the group --- or would that be just the excuse everyone's looking for to wear their Bob Cameron kits?)

I wouldn't feel right doing a "hit and run" (i.e., not knocking on the door or leaving a note), but perhaps it would be better in future instances to work directly with the vehicle owner, and agree to pay their deductible and any impacts on their premiums; that certainly would have been cheaper than the total repair costs.

Anyway, I think we have determined there were 8 of us in total on the ride, which puts it at roughly $200 a piece. They have given me to the end of the month to pay, or it goes to collections, so we can work it out amongst us in the next 3 weeks or so.

See you guys again some time (I hope)...

Chris Fraser · Post by **Chris Fraser** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 8:12 am

Sorry for not posting earlier -- way behind on all the posts on the site.

I'm in to pay for this, gritting my teeth at the final price -- looks like a total "gouge ICBC" price by the shop that did the work (my recollection being a scratch but no denting on the car) and it's tempting to request to review the final invoice to see if the adjuster was duped.

Re our general approach to these incidents, I think the best system is: if you were there you pay your share , otherwise any payment is voluntary.

In the future, suggest we identify ourselves as something Lawless and chant, "see you in court" as we cycle away.

CF

David Hill · Post by **David Hill** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:04 pm

I spoke to my house insurance guy today. I have $1,000 coverage through my Voluntary Damage Coverage policy, which I am willing to use for this claim.

I will lose my claims free status for three years, which will have a net result to my premiums of about $300 (they're going to call this week to confirm).

If that is the case, that will bring the total amount to $900, rather than $1600.

That would make the total hit about $112.50 per person who was on the ride, or substantially less if there's a group hug on it.

How does that sit with everyone?

Thanks,

JohnT · Post by **JohnT** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:36 pm

ART BOY · Post by **ART BOY** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:32 pm

so... a smaller painting

I'll simply cut the one i'm working on... this is confusitng

AlW · Post by **AlW** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:50 pm

Hi guys.

According to my insurance adjuster wife.....

Your home insurance policy should have two coverages to respond to this situation, both of which do not carry a deductible. The one you mentioned is the voluntary property damage and you say you have a limit of $1000. This is a coverage in which you agree to pay for damage to someones property when you are NOT LEGALLY at fault. It is meant as a "good neighbour" type of coverage where someone can request to reimburse an injured party although they are not legally responsible to do so. The problem with that coverage is that it is not enough to respond to all of the damage and you will need to make up the shortfall.

The other coverage is your legal liability coverage which should have a limit of at least $1million. In order for that to kick in, you must be legally liable for the damage, which differs from the VPD coverage above in which you just WANT to pay for it. In this case, as a cyclist hitting a parked vehicle, I would think it is safe to say that you are legally liable for not paying close enough attention. Therefore, I think it is this coverage that best responds to the situation and would provide full reimbursement without a deductible. The only other issue is then the loss of your claims free discount which is impossible to avoid. Perhaps the other riders would chip in for this increased cost only which is probably $300 or so for the full 3 yrs??

Regardless, with respect to the amount they are seeking, you are only responsible to them for the USED value of any parts. Sometimes people put brand new factory parts on their car and submit the bill to be reimbursed. If that is case, you are technically only liable to them for the used cost, not the new one (ie if the car was a '92 toyota, you would be responsible for what a bumper would cost from an auto wrecker, not a NEW bumper). But in this case, that value is likely very small and not worth worrying about....

David Hill · Post by **David Hill** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:30 pm

Well this just gets funner and funner!

Thanks Albert for the tips -- I honestly really enjoy adjusters; they constantly remind me of how much I don't know (as opposed to lawyers, who just remind me that I need to give them a retainer before they'll advise me whether I know something or not).

I did manage to get a 30-day extension on the payment date, so we have until May 31 to get the payment in. I am awaiting a call from the actual insurance company, and I will raise the question about the legal liability coverage, and the ramifications of going that route.

Also, sorry Galen -- I need cash, man... (I've already sold the 3 paintings of yours that I had, and have bought cheap forgeries from a shop in Fan Tan Alley - you can't tell the difference!)

Anyway, appreciate all the support; I'll keep you all posted.

Plawless · Post by **Plawless** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:33 pm

Its ok Dave...just get me $5000 and we will get the answers together. I am here to help buddy!

David Hill · Post by **David Hill** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:02 pm

Hey guys, I'll cut to the chase.

My wife is very uncomfortable with us putting the claim against our home insurance, as she is rightly worried about the possible impacts on our claims record and the future impact that could have on our premiums or insurability.

She is okay putting this claim on our house insurance so long as the only impact is a three-year premium hike that will be covered by the group, and that there will be no cumulative or future impact on us (i.e, if we have another claim or robbery in that time or later on).

If there are longer term impacts or premium hikes, we won't be able to put it on our home insurance, and will need to just pay out the claim to ICBC.

I am still awaiting word from my insurance provider, to get more certainty on this. Hopefully I'll have my answers by the end of the week.

Sorry to keep going on this, but I should have checked in with Deidre before offering to use our house insurance; her concerns are clear and legitimate, and I'm not a fool.

Thanks and stay tuned.

David

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Car repairs - Crash on Dallas Road

Car repairs - Crash on Dallas Road

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