HELP Spread the WORD! Lochside Trail-Tsawout First Nations

[Jane Victoria]

Hello there fellow cyclists,
I'm hoping you can help spread some information to other cyclists and groups.
In a recent visit to the Tsawout First Nation Band to ask about some Community Engagement support during the Tour de Victoria ride on May 28th, both Ken Cossey, Lands Manager and Victor Robinson, Director of Operations expressed concern over the fact that cyclists are cutting off of Lochside Trail (before Mt. Newton) and riding through their land in a pack blocking traffic and leaving litter and water bottles behind.
On behalf of all cyclists, I advised them I would do my best to spread the word to cycling groups that this is of concern to the band and likely in the next few weeks they will be posting signs, "No cycling allowed."
Any assistance in getting this message out would be appreciated.
Jane Victoria King
Logistics - Sponsorship - Social Media
Tour de Victoria
jane@tourdevictoria.com

[sylvan]

leaving litter and water bottles behind...

B.S.

It's easy to ride the highway to Mt. Newton and probably safer considering the worsening condition of the "road" in there.

[barton bourassa]

Norm and I turned into the reserve this morning to be greeted by two very official and professionally prepared and installed signs telling cyclist to get out and stay out. I wonder if there is any interest in putting a delegation of Tripleshot and Oak Bay cyclists together to set up a meeting with the band to discuss their concerns and see if we can work something out?

Barton.

[wonger]

I'm with Sylvan on this one. I don't believe for a second that cyclists are what cause any "litter" problems on that stretch. The last time I checked there weren't a lot of pro tour riders in the middle of their three hour peninsula ride chucking water bottles away to be re-supplied by a team car. In the future I will just stay on the highway.

[Josh.E]

I prefer to litter on the highway when I ride. They make the people who are doing community service clean it up for me.

[Jane Victoria]

Hey guys the impression I got from the band was besides the garbage - the pack riding was blocking or slowing down their community access.

I also flipped the information over to the Greater Victoria Cycling Coalition - have yet to hear back anything from them.

FYI - rollin' on...

Jane

[sylvan]

besides the garbage - the pack riding was blocking or slowing down their community access.

Of course it was.

[Der Radfahrer]

We need to get more details here. Are there specific days and times that they have seen specific evidence that litter and bottles were thrown on the ground by cyclists? I have ridden there hundreds of times and have seen no littering at all, and with little to no vehicle traffic as well. I wonder if they are spooked by having 2000 cyclists riding through as part of the TdV?

[RyanC]

I think this is a political situation rather than a specific Tsawout community concern as it appears only to have come about as a result of the 'threat' of Ryder's ride coming through. It goes deeper and more historically than this, I am sure. It appears the issue overlaps with several issues that have occurred completely unrelated to cycling. I think we really just happen to have kicked the hornet's nest, so to speak. I will leave it at that. I caution you all to consider that, if we do have a collective response, we should express it through formal channels and mind our Ps and Qs as individual representatives of the cycling community. It might get ugly quickly.

Case in point, one of our members (I will let that party identify themself if they wish to) was physcially threatened by a reserve resident driving in his truck while riding through the reserve unawares. The driver reportedly forced that cyclist off the road (albeit at low speed - but really, does that make any difference?) and proceeded to loudly inform them about the warning sign on the Pat Bay highway and about their NOT being welcome on their land. The cyclist then was approached by several pedestrians (also apparently reserve residents) who joined in on the yelling match. The cyclist managed to get away unharmed but this to me is indicative of the level of hostility we would see if we chose to act individually. We probably should compose a formal position on this development but I can't say for certain that it would be anything but inflammatory regardless of how well worded it might be. So what are our options? What is our position?

Your thoughts on an organized response? Jon? Peter? Anyone?
Ryan

[Lister Farrar]

Good post Ryan. I wonder if the response to cyclists there is a little bit like how some North Saanich residents responded to the accident on Lands End road a couple years age (ie blaming the 'lycra brigade'), and even the 'what's in it for our residents' line from the velodrome land owners. Maybe there's a territoriality button that's being pushed. Neighbours on my street have it for parents driving too fast to the school a block away. If people are free to imagine us as nasty/littering/aggressive out-of-towners, and they don't know us, they will imagine that if someone suggests it.

I think Barton was on the right track. Would it be worth approaching them and asking if they would like to talk about it? I'd volunteer to to take part if needed. What if we offered something, anything, to meet them and show we aren't just hell's angels in lycra passing through (a kids bike clinic? Volunteers for a litter pick up day? Or really, whatever they want.) If they reject that, well, it says more about them than us. We can always do a bit of the Strada Bianche along the lochside trail instead.

I'd also like to know if in fact some cyclists are misbehaving, and do what we can to stop that. It sounds unlikely to me, but we should at least ask. They live there.

[JohnT]

fuhgeddaboudit

Let's just ask for a highway sign to alert drivers to watch for bikes over that stretch of highway.

JT

[Roland]

fuhgeddaboudit

Agreed, it's an extra 1.3km on the highway. Not a big deal.

[Jane Victoria]

Wow. Can't believe how this has escalated.
Tour de Victoria is not going through their land.
Be good if the GVCC weighed in at some point.
Anyone connected with them?

[Brian S]

Jane--I agree. The road through the Tsawout reserve is private, as is the land. It is the band's right and privilege to grant and deny access, and that is just something we must respect, regardless of apparent reason. I think some dialogue may help us understand why access has been denied, and give the cycling community a chance to explain that we mean no harm or insult to person or property. Maybe that will be helpful in the long term.

[Jane Victoria]

Like I said in my initial post.
They were quite upset with the packs not pulling over and blocking or slowing down traffic.
Later he reiterated the litter, i.e. water bottles, etc.
Of course, no cyclist intends to throw their water bottle away.
Last communication I had with them they were pleased that the message was getting out. He'd approved the signs for posting and was going to do just that.
Jane